Brett Curry, one of the BIGGEST YouTube spenders out there dives into how to create a SUPER RICH Youtube ad

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Brett Curry


Brett Curry



OMG Commerce
Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsLive on SpotifyLive on Youtube

Brett is an online marketer, eCommerce strategist, and speaker, but first and foremost he's an entrepreneur. Brett's passion is helping eCommerce companies grow their businesses through creative marketing efforts. Brett is the author of the Ultimate Guide to Google Shopping published by Shopify and the creator of the Smart Google and YouTube Traffic Course in partnership with Ezra Firestone.

Episode Summary


  • How to create a RICH and JUICY Youtube ad step by step
  • What makes a poor YouTube ad and what to avoid
  • Understanding true attribution to set up platform KPIs




Brett (00:00):

One of the best ads to start with that. It's relatively simple. It's just what we call the explainer right in the explainer is like this clear problem solution premise where you're trying to hook someone in the first five seconds with like a problem solution statement or question. So give me an example. And one of the examples that I've given in the guide is Grammarly and Grammarly. Believe it or not. I was one of the top spenders on YouTube, not a client, which they were, uh, they spend a whole bunch of cash on YouTube, but they, they open with it. It's like a professional woman and she's sitting on a couch, it looks like she's maybe in a coffee shop or something. And she says, if you write anything online, you need Grammarly. And then it goes into like the discussion about, Hey, it corrects your grammar and spelling issues on the fly. And it bounces back and forth between people. And, you know, one is like a dude trying to get a job. And another is a lady, you know, sending memos to PTA or messages to PTA. And literally it's just posting on social media, but showing these people and what they're doing online and how Grammarly is saving today. So clear problem solution

Brett (01:09):

Premise, right? [inaudible]

Dylan (01:20):

You're listening to the rich add poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliate brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with poor ads. Let's get into it. All right, everybody, we are back in business with another episode of the rich dad, poor dad podcast. Today, we have an absolute killer when it comes to YouTube ads. They're one of the top spenders on YouTube for their clients. Um, we actually had some conversations before this and that was super intriguing. There going to be some value bombs dropped on the YouTube side of things here. So we do have the one and only Brett Curry, who was the CEO of OMG commerce, who was responsible for spending roughly 60 million, you know, the whole year across other accounts on Google, YouTube. But primarily we'll be talking today about YouTube. So hype train's up, Brett? What's up, man. What's up?

Brett (02:23):

Hey man. Thanks for that intro Dylan. I am excited to be here and can't wait to talk YouTube ads for e-commerce my favorite topic right now.

Dylan (02:33):

Oh, that's a good one. Especially when you love the topic, it's like actually enjoyable to like have those conversations because I mean, it's when you're in the game, it's like, Oh, this is some valuable stuff, you know, so absolutely

Brett (02:44):

It's one, it's fun. And I'm, you know, a marketing junkie I've loved video marketing forever been doing the online stuff since 2004, but what's exciting about YouTube ads is still most e-commerce businesses are not using it and it's a huge untapped opportunity. And so hopefully we can motivate people and educate people to, to change that. So the more people start advertising their e-commerce business on YouTube.

Dylan (03:09):

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, we have a couple of clients doing it and it's, it's wild, but it works, you know, the creative going to be super different and on that specific platform. But I mean, once you hit all those buttons, I mean, it's, it's glorious, but a little background about yourself, OMG commerce, kind of what y'all are up to these days.

Brett (03:26):

Yeah, absolutely. So LNG commerce, we are a digital agency, like you mentioned, uh, Google, YouTube, Amazon. That's where we focus. We're a team of 42 and growing. So we're going strong. We're adding people left and right. I think we've added 10 total people this year, even grown through the pandemic, which is crazy. We're super great. Super grateful for that. And so, you know, my background is though, I, like I mentioned, I started in online ads back in 2004, running SEO campaigns before that I was doing TV and radio, believe it or not kind of through college and stuff. And so, uh, yeah, it really broke into the e-commerce scene doing, uh, running Google shopping ads. I think I mentioned that to you before the show and, and uh, actually I wrote the ultimate guide to Google shopping that Shopify published and just a quick little extra, uh, I just rewrote that guide for 2020 and Shopify just published it.

Brett (04:20):

So it's free. You don't have to opt in, we can drop a link or I send you a links and drop it in the show notes. Uh, so Google shopping, but then about four years ago, start experimenting with YouTube. And it was kind of this blend of all of my worlds coming together where I'd done, I'd done some SEO, done some Google shopping the TV, and now YouTube is like, it combines all of that. Right. It can combines the targeting of search and the data that's available and all that plus video. So it kind of fell in love with it. So yeah, we've been focusing on YouTube, but that's one of our primary areas of focus right now

Dylan (04:54):

Going from radio and TV to the digital scene. Man, I bet the track is way better these days than it was back then.

Brett (05:01):

Yeah. I used to work in like the automotive space and I worked with a big Chevy dealer and lots of other clients too, but you'd be like, Hey, so what, what what's working this month? Like, well, we don't know we're selling more, you know, we, we, we, we're trying to get the salespeople to ask when someone comes on the lot, but the salespeople won't do it. And then people don't remember. Yeah. Uh, it was, those were crazy times, but I love e-commerce because for the most part you can see just about everything that's going on.

Dylan (05:27):

Oh yeah. And I mean, whether it's one day, seven day, 28 days, I mean, attribution's the key to happiness for most business owners. It seems like

Brett (05:34):

It is indeed. It is indeed. Yes, sir.

Dylan (05:37):

Well, heck yeah man. So of course we love to dive into the rich ad segment of basically what's kind of working good for you. So kind of take it away with, you know, what's your rich head on this YouTube world

Brett (05:52):

Have a combo of audience and ad on YouTube that is consistent, that crushes it regularly, no matter the vertical. And again, it's all e-commerce, but you know, we're talking supplements, we're talking automotive, we're talking, you know, medical devices, like just, just a little bit of everything. And we've seen work with this approach, this rich ad approach that I'm going to lay out right here. So, uh, the first audience that we like to target. So if we're taking a client from zero in daily, YouTube spend to 10,000 or 30,000 a day in profitable YouTube ad spend, this is the first audience that we typically use and, and this audience has gotten better. So it was always pretty efficient in the past, but now it's like efficiency and occasionally scale too. So, uh, I mentioned a minute ago, one of things I love about YouTube is that it's kind of the power of video, but the precision of search.

Brett (06:52):

And so the audience type that we like to launch with is called custom intent. Now it's actually been just for those technical people out there, those that are running YouTube just to be fully accurate. The name has sort of changed. Now. It's just part of Google's custom audience builder, but I still like to call it custom intent because that's kind of what it is. And that was the original name. And I think it's more descriptive. So custom intent, that's where you can build an audience of people based on what they've recently searched for on Google and on YouTube, right. Which is magical because those are the two top search engines online, right? More searches take place on YouTube than on any other search engine other than Google. And so what we'll do here usually, and there's lots of really creative ways you can approach building these audiences.

Brett (07:43):

But a lot of times we're just looking at, Hey, what are the top non-brand search terms that are converting for this client? And we'll bundle those up into an audience and, and build that. And so what's awesome is so we've always used these audiences and for the last three years or so, we use this type of audience they've usually worked, right. They're using, uh, you know, be pretty efficient, pretty effective, but used to, we could never get them to scale. You know, they'd spend a hundred, 200, $300 a day, which for a lot of our clients is very interesting. Uh, but recently, and I'm saying recently probably since, uh, uh, pre pandemic and I bet with dates, I don't remember exactly, but it was whatever is recent that that's that's good enough. Uh, Google switched to where it used to just be based on someone's Google search behavior.

Brett (08:30):

Now it's their Google or YouTube search behavior. So we're finding some, some custom intent audiences are spending 3000, 4,000. We had one spending 6,000 a day, one audience profitably. And so these audiences can be pretty effective and scalable in some cases. And so it's like I mentioned, I think starting with top non-brand search ads, or you can kind of get, you kind of get a sneaky and throwing some competitive search terms that can work well also, so that's, that's the audience, right? And it's not the only audience, like if you're gonna spend 30,000 a day on YouTube or you need more than one audience type. Right. But that's just, that's a fun one to build it's unique, right. That audience, you can't build on Facebook or other platforms and it works. So it's really want to launch with so custom intent audiences as we launch with. Uh, do you have any questions on that Dylan before?

Dylan (09:26):

How is this all pretty real-time data? So is this somebody searching 20 days ago? Where is it, you know, searching the past seven days? Um, so, so what I've learned

Brett (09:35):

Recently, you know, you know, Google, Facebook, all those, all those companies, they change stuff and they don't, they don't run those changes by me. Uh, but I think, uh, it's a 14 day window. So customer intent is based on your recent search behavior. Whereas something like custom affinity, uh, is more based on like your, your regular ongoing behavior, but custom intent. It should be that a two week window when someone has made one of those searches. So it's refresh refresh audience. So, so that's the audience. And then really, you've got to combine it with the right creative. Right. And you, and you talked about this, you've got some clients that run on YouTube. The creatives are very different than what you see work on Instagram or Facebook. I think that the quickest picture to give people is that think short form infomercial, right? So you're a fan of infomercials.

Brett (10:27):

And I'll tell you the first time, uh, I thought maybe like, uh, a career in advertising would be cool because when I was a kid and I saw the Ginsu knife commercials, this is dating some 40, uh, you, you, you were like younger than me. Uh, so you may have not seen the Ginsu knife commercials, but I remember watching the Ginsu knife infomercial and, and, you know, somebody was cutting through a can of Pepsi and then they took the knife and they slice through a tomato. I'm like, Oh, coolest I've ever, you know, uh, so think more infomercial with short form, right? So we're talking minute and a half to three minutes is kind of a sweet spot. Occasionally it's shorter, you know, 45 seconds, but usually it's a minute and a half to three minutes. Okay. So think short form infomercials. Now there's several approaches that work when it comes to ads and I'll mention another free resource I wrote, uh, or put together this guide and actually put it together for our team.

Brett (11:20):

First, it's a collection of our favorite YouTube ads. So some of them are our clients, some are, you know, from like the Harmon brothers and other, you know, big agencies and stuff, but like our favorite YouTube ads. And I kind of started to categorize them and give them fun names like the manifesto and the have it all and some other cool names. And so got these in a guy, but they're, they're available on the website. I'm happy to give you a link to that too, so people can check that out. So I highly recommend you look at that. You'll inspire you, educate you and all that. But, uh, one of the best ads to start with, and it's relatively simple is just what we call the explainer, right? And the explainer is like this clear problem solution premise where you're trying to hook someone in the first five seconds with like a problem solution statement or question.

Brett (12:09):

So give me an example of, one of the examples that I've given the, in the guide is Grammarly and Grammarly. Believe it or not. I was one of the top spenders on YouTube, not a client. I wish they were a, there's been a whole bunch of cash on YouTube, but they, they open with it. It's like a professional woman and she's sitting on a couch, it looks like she's maybe in a coffee shop or something. And she says, if you write anything online, you need Grammarly. And then it goes into like the discussion about, Hey, it corrects your grammar and spelling issues on the fly. And it bounces back and forth between people. And, you know, one is like a dude trying to get a job. And another is a lady, you know, sending memos to PTA or messages to PTA. And literally it's just posting on social media, but showing these people and what they're doing online and how Grammarly is saving the day.

Brett (12:55):

So clear problem solution premise. Right. So, so that's kind of the opening of the explainer. Then you need to have kind of a demo, like a product demo. And I like it if it's kind of an over the top demo mixed with kind of an everyday demo. Right? So, so one, uh, one good picture here for the demo part is have you ever seen the flex seal commercials directly? So it's like, all right, flex seal is a spray on thing. If you've got a leak in like a flower pot or something like that, you spray on flex seal. Right? So, so most of the use cases are like average, you know, suburbia, not that interesting, but to push it over the top, the founder of flex seal like takes, uh, it takes screens like screens you'd make a screen door forms a boat and then sprays flex seal on it to make it float.

Brett (13:47):

Right. And so it was like, he shows that demonstration, that's the way over the top demonstration, but then yes, of course, you know, sprayed on your gutters or sprayed on your flower pots or whatever. Right. So, so like a product demonstration now in, in the case of Grammarly, what they do is they kind of bounce back and forth between these different use cases of person getting a job person posting on social media person, filling out, you know, typing up the resume and it's showing Grammarly working. It's like on the screen, it's showing a picture and picture of Grammarly working as the people are talking. So, so you need a product demonstration, right. And then you need social proof, right. And again, Grammarly kind of blends us together in, in what they do. Uh, but you need social proof, right? So you need, you need an actual user saying, this is what it's done for me.

Brett (14:33):

Right. And, and, and I really like this combination of, of on camera, someone on camera telling their story, you know, saying things like, I never thought this could work. Right. I never thought that I could find something this comfortable or this affordable or this effective, or that made me look this good. Right. I never thought I could do it, but it's here and it's this. And it's awesome. So, you know, personal on camera, we've also used, we worked a lot of products that have a lot of good reviews. So we'll do something like, Hey, this product has over 10,005 star reviews. So you like flash that and then flash reviews on the screen and stuff. So I like a combination of someone, an actual customer on camera and then also a cutaway to the online reviews. So, so social proof, and then really just a clear call to action.

Brett (15:15):

So it's like the Grammarly it's use it free, try it for free, right. That doesn't work for everybody. But what is like, what is your introductory offer? Uh, if you're selling an expensive item, push someone to download a guide or see a demo or schedule a call. If it's something where you're on a subscription and you pack in this killer first time off, or we do a lot with, with supplements and, and people that try to get, you know, clients have to try to sell subscriptions. And so we'll do like this killer initial offer. So really strong CTA, but that's, that's like the most straightforward ad as the explainer. So a lot of times it's, we're working with clients and they'll come to us and say, okay, these are all our ad, all our video assets and testimonials and stuff. We can usually blend those together into a pretty powerful explainer. So found that combo of good problems, solution explainer, video plus custom intent audience can make for a pretty powerful launch on YouTube.

Dylan (16:13):

Oh man. I can only imagine now with these videos, are they pretty professionally done? Uh, is it user generated content? Like how do you kind of go about this sometimes and what would you recommend? Because sometimes pricey, it's not as pricey as it's just a great question.

Brett (16:28):

So ultimately, you know, the story you tell the benefits that you lay out and how believable is it, that's really what matters, right? That, that trumps everything. We've seen ads that cost a couple thousand dollars scale on YouTube because they were authentic and they, they, they, you know, clear problem solution opening and they good demo and like all that. So you don't have to spend a lot, uh, on YouTube. You know, if you, if you can do like a Harmon brothers style production. So in, in our brother, you know, and that's, that's super expensive, but somebody like a Squatty potty or Poo-Pourri, or, or Lummi deodorant or whatever like that, that's the Harmon brothers style. Those are great. Those work really well purple mattress, but you don't have to spend that much. Right. So we're a client in the automotive space that really, they had so many good testimonials and all user generated. So mostly, you know, iPhone or, or smartphone. And, and so we took all of the, or we, we, we created a video that was all user generated content. So we call it the UGC mashup user and content mashup, but it was all user-generated content with, with fast cuts and, and super-imposed text and music like to bring it to life, but it was all user generated content. And so that, that can work as well.

Dylan (17:43):

That is super interesting there. Yeah. Because I mean, all I'm thinking right now is just Billy Mays with a fantastic offer.

Brett (17:53):

And so another thing too, like it doesn't, I know we talked to infomercial, we talked flex seal and of course Billy Mays and, and, and so Infomart, I think thinking infomercial is good because it gets in the right frame of mind, but it can still have your personality. Right. You don't have to be like New Jersey, boardwalk sales guy, you know, in your face. Like you don't have to have that personality, but I still think that's the best frame is, you know, think infomercial rather than something short and sweet, you know, or, you know, branding ad or something like that. It's, it's not like that.

Dylan (18:19):

I've tried to use so many like commercial based ads, you know, and they just don't work on platforms sometimes where you know exactly how many creatives are you typically testing at one time out of curiosity.

Brett (18:30):

Yeah. So YouTube is notorious for making it difficult to test creatives. Uh, but on the flip side, YouTube is, is less creative, hungry, right? So, so like with Facebook and I don't manage Facebook ads. So I'm just speaking from what I've learned from, from good friends and stuff is I know, you know, creatives will burn out on Facebook and you gotta your constant re relaunching or tweaking, or like we've had some clients that have, that have certain audiences run the same video ad on YouTube for like a year. And the reason for that, if you think about it like a custom intent audience, it's a turnover every 14 days, right? The new new people are searching. So, so the, the audience has always refreshed. So if the ad works or just keeps working, now we are testing multiple creatives. And so often our clients have, you know, three to 10 creatives running at any one time.

Brett (19:22):

And depending on like the stage of the funnel, we've got a slightly different variation of an ad. But I think you can launch with two to three ads, if they're good, right. If you've got a good explainer or a good user gender, you know, UGC, mashup, uh, I think you can launch with two to three good ads. Um, if you do more than that, Google's pretty bad about balancing, you know, what, what ad gets served and they'll pick a favorite really quickly. And so like, if you're a launch with 10 ads, you're going to have a hard time doing that anyway. So, so two to three, I think you're, I think you're great to launch with that.

Dylan (19:55):

This is more of a personal question for me, but how do you feel about those eight minute ads you see on YouTube where it's like, how are these so long? I hate them.

Brett (20:07):

Yeah. I know, man. It's like, how would you, how could you ever sit through those? So we, um, so we, we run all the YouTube ads for boom, by Cindy, Joseph as her Firestone's good friend of mine. Yeah. So we've been running his YouTube ads now for several years. And then we took that from really nothing for them to now it's, it's their number two lead gen source, right behind Facebook. They've had some seven minute ads that have crushed it. Like I think they're top ad. And as it was totally cool with me sharing some data because he shares it too. And so he's like, I've got permission, but I'm like four and a half minutes I think is their, their number one video now is about four and a half minutes. So it's just worth testing. Right. Just think about, usually if you can get someone to stay engaged and you can say more than you can province show more than you can probably sell more. But, but yeah, I mean that the, the UGC mashup video I mentioned before kind of automotive type client, it's like 45 seconds and it was killing it. Um, so it really depends, but, but yeah, that we've seen seven minute videos work well, so don't be afraid to test and the goal gold there.

Speaker 4 (21:15):

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Brett (22:36):

Check it So we're going to take a dark turn. So, you know, we'd love to kind of dive into, what's not working.

Speaker 4 (22:45):

What is your poor ad?

Brett (22:50):

Yeah. So the beautiful tragedy part of the podcast, or this is what, this is what people really want to watch. Right? They want to hear the train wreck. They want to hear, how did you fall on your face? All right, I've got, I've got to, uh, this, this is a header. We want to be quick, but we'll, we'll, we'll talk through this. Okay. So I mentioned, I mentioned Google shopping and I mentioned that, you know, wrote the guide to Google shopping. Okay. So a few years ago I was at Google marketing live. It was, I believe it was in, uh, the Bay area, you know, we're, we're, Google's headquartered. And I heard them announce, Hey, we got a new YouTube ad product. It's called TrueView for shopping. And it's a pre-roll pre-roll TrueView ad, plus your Google shopping ad right next to it. And I thought like, blow my mind. This, this is really all my worlds coming together. Like, you know, get a jumping around like a school girl, super excited. So we decided let's, let's test this, roll this out. We're telling clients about it. I'm like, Hey, it's brand new, but can you imagine how awesome this is going to be? And uh, so we launched it and, uh, I'll tell you how awesome it wasn't.

Brett (23:57):

It sucked. And so I still think it's a good, like I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll redeem the day a little bit for the ad type. I don't want to disparage it fully, but using TrueView for shopping to a cold audience, no man, we could, we couldn't get it to work. We tried lots of different things. It sucked every time. And, and I think the reason for this let's just take boom by Cindy, Joseph as an example. So they're running ads for this BoomStick trio, right? It's like five makeup tips for older women. And then the BoomStick trio is the product. Well, you're like creating this mystique about how amazing the product is and here's all the women that are enjoying it. And here's some testimonials Oh, and here right next to it. Here's the price of all of it kind of ruins the mystique, right? Where if you got a better call to action, like learn more, visit site, check it out now, see it in action, whatever people click through and then the page is going to sell them.

Brett (24:45):

Right. We've got a good Lander that sells them. Whereas when you have the PLA as the product listing ads or Google shopping as right there by the video and it kinda, it kinda, now you're just, you're ruining the day. Right. You're just, uh, it's just like the grocery stores a show for something. So we tried it in a lot of different ways. We finally found how it would work though. It works for retargeting. So once you have someone that, you know, run standard TrueView for, they're going to your site, maybe they're not ready to buy yet. You're running a remarketing ad. That's TrueView for shopping. Bingo. Now we got a winner, but yeah, that was one of those things where man, I was, I was all going home about that and I sold it hard because it's just like, I'm a Google shopping fanboy. Right. So I sold it hard. Yeah. No, no boy.

Dylan (25:31):

Yeah. It's like, you're giving him, give him the whole cake, you know, out of the Gates where they just aren't hungry anymore. That's never thought of it like that. That's right. Yeah.

Brett (25:37):

Yeah. I think, I think that's it now, uh, uh, actually I can start with, uh, so there there's actually, uh, a new beta that Google launched. That's like, I think may be able to fix it. Oh, a little. But I still think, I still think, um, any variation that may be on the horizon may or may not be on the horizon for TrueView, for shopping is I'm going to be more mid-funnel and lower, uh, in terms of what, what works. Okay. So that's, that's fair. Number one, poor ad number one, poor ad numero dos. Uh, and you alluded to this, I'm really glad you did. And we kind of been talking about a little bit, but we've had a few people and especially in the early days of YouTube were like, Hey, you got a video ad is working on Facebook. Let's just run that on YouTube, right?

Brett (26:15):

Yeah. A little 15 second ad. That's killing it on Facebook. Let's just, let's just throw that thing up on YouTube and run it. Yeah. Uh, crash and burn 100% of the time. So I'll give you an example, client, and then no, this is not one that this client is since we learned our lesson, but this will be a good visual. So this client has on Facebook with their running as like a 15 second ad. They target women and there's this girl kind of dancing around singing and she's got kind of bouncy hair and there's cool texts. And she's like a really cool fun app. It's like 15 seconds. But around that, out on Facebook, you got the text above it and the call to action below, like that's telling the full story, right. That ad kills it well on YouTube though, we have to run like this two and a half minute infomercial.

Brett (27:01):

That's what works on YouTube because the video has to tell the whole story. There's not text around it to complete the story. The videos got to do all the heavy lifting. And so we've seen that crash and burn as well. You try to take a Facebook ad directly from Facebook to YouTube. Usually it's going to bond now, uh, if you look at your Facebook ad and you say, Oh, no, it actually is more like the infomercial type of the explainer that you're talking about. Well then awesome. Cause, uh, cause boom, actually some of the ads we use on YouTube are the ads they use on Facebook, but they're like two to three minute ads and they, and they kind of follow that, that formula that I was talking about. So, so there you go. Two, two poor ads, uh, no TrueView for shopping for top of funnel and no Facebook ad directly to YouTube, you will be disappointed.

Dylan (27:48):

So with these fails, how much do y'all typically kind of put behind them? Especially when you're a little, I got shiny object syndrome, so I get a little,

Brett (28:01):

Let's go real. Let's go, let's go big or go home. Uh, no, thankfully, um, for all of these mistakes, I didn't spend a whole lot, um, you know, if it was my own brand, I probably would've gotten myself in trouble because I'd be like, yay. I know it's going to work. Let's roll the dice, baby. Let's get the, uh, but when it's somebody else's money first, they usually wanna be cautious. And then I do too. So thankfully it didn't waste a ton of money. I mean, it was, you know, in the, in the thousands obviously, but not like that make or break thankfully. So I guess that's not, maybe not the, the beautiful train wreck that some people hope for, but it's gotta be conservative. You know, you know, the ages of game, like when you're, when you're spending the client's money, you gotta be, you gotta be careful. Uh, so it was more of like a, I presented this as potentially going to be awesome. And it wasn't, that was the more embarrassing part than the amount of money we wasted. So

Dylan (28:49):

It's funny how you just put it, if it was your brand, you would have gone all in or something to where I'm like, I am so like careful with clients' money. And then whenever I do my own stuff in my thousand bucks,

Brett (29:02):

I mean, obviously what you're also, if you're paying attention to, but you're just, you're just a little more, a little more aggressive. So yeah. Thankfully in both, both of these cases, I did not waste a ton of money.

Dylan (29:13):

Yeah. So for the final segment, you know, we take a page out of rich dad, poor dad book, we try and find a crossroads of the marketing and financial side of things. So take it away, man. I know it's going to be revolved around you too. So I'm still amped up.

Brett (29:26):

Yeah. So, uh, I do love numbers and you know, looking at the finance side is huge. You know, as you can tell from what we've talked about, all of what we do is direct response, right? We're not, we're not running branding campaigns. We're not just trying to create awareness or build remarketing audiences. Although those things are good too. And we have helped a couple of big brands, like a P and G brand do some awareness type stuff, but that's not our bread and butter. So, but one of the things to think about as you're looking at your YouTube campaign, and you're trying to measure to a specific CPA, you have to consider that there is a halo effect, right? There is an impact that goes beyond the direct CPA, but I don't think we should just say, well, okay, then we'll just be happy with anything, right?

Brett (30:12):

And then, then we're creating awareness. That's what we're doing. We're creating, we're getting people to, to know our brand. So we'll just spend whatever. Obviously we, we don't want to go that far, but as we're looking at that direct CPA, you should be measuring lift in other ways and in other tangible, measurable ways. So I'll give you some examples. Uh, one of the things that is going to happen, people will watch your YouTube ad. They will be interested. They will click and they will not purchase. Right? This happens all the time. People are interested something about your ad, a hook to them, but they don't purchase, right. They may fall out of your conversion window. They, they may switch devices, right. And you're not gonna be able to really close the loop here. Uh, but if they're interested, the next thing they will do is they will search, right.

Brett (30:58):

They'll go to Google and search for you. And so a couple of things, you gotta do. One, you gotta, you gotta watch brand lift. So you have to pay attention to your branded search campaigns. How do they grow over the time that you run your YouTube ads? Because branded ad branded campaigns, right? They're, they're totally dependent on other marketing efforts, right? Nobody just wakes up and dreams your brand name and starts searching where they've got to see another ad. So we saw this very clearly with, with a couple of other big Facebook spenders, where once we started and we're going hard on YouTube, we saw, we saw the branded search campaign sometimes go up 40, 50%. Right. So, and, and you can't connect all of those dots directly back to Facebook. I mean, sort of directly back to YouTube, but we know YouTube is, is having an impact.

Brett (31:45):

Okay. So yet look at branded, uh, brand lift. That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is through Google trends. Now Google trends is going to tell you, uh, what kind of search volume your brand has. So again, you can go to Google trends, it's free type in your brand name and then pay attention to when you launched YouTube and look at it, you know, a few weeks after and see if there's an increase in branded search, you can also do, what's called a brand lift study through Google, which, uh, now is, is kind of part of the part of the interface, but you gotta be spending, I think it's about 20,000 a week to get that data. So that'll, that'll come later, you know? Um, but that, that is an option. The other thing is if you're selling on any other channels, so a lot of our clients, we're running YouTube ads.

Brett (32:32):

They're also selling on Amazon. And so we don't really run YouTube ads directly to Amazon. We haven't found that to be super effective yet. I haven't really cracked the code on that, but we are seeing. And so one big spender we have right now on YouTube, they're finding, uh, whatever amount of sales they get directly on their site. They're seeing about a 20 to 30% lift on Amazon as well. Right? So if they're making, they're making 10 sales, you know, on their site, they're seeing two to three additional sales on Amazon. Uh, once, once we started, um, once we started YouTube, so you're going to see a lift in other places as well. So think about yes. Measure that direct CPA, you know, from directly from your ads, but consider the lift, consider the halo effect and do it in a measurable way. Right. Uh, and so, so those are a few tips to look at, Hey, what all is, is YouTube doing? Because we found that YouTube is probably a little less aggressive and taking credit than say Facebook or other channels are. So looking at the total lift is pretty empty.

Dylan (33:40):

That makes total sense. I mean, all of these platforms and attribution these days, they're, it's, it's everywhere. So, I mean, I think that's killer, cause I mean, one giant scale could impact all the other platforms. So you got to keep those in mind just because timing is everything people could be in traffic, you know, give them an hour or two.

Brett (33:57):

Right. Right. Exactly. So at a couple of things too, and then this is related, you mentioned attribution a couple of times, some of my favorite topics too. Like you can really nerd out with like somebody that's in the business, you can nerd out about attribution because there's not like a hundred percent right. Or wrong answer. Right. Like, you know, which, what attribution model do you use? Do you use time decay or, or data driven or position based or where like there's, there's different models to look at, which is kind of nerdy and fun. Um, but you know, one of the things that I'm talking to more and more people about, and so as for Firestone is one of them that believes in this is that yes, you have to measure in the platform. Right? So we we've got our targets and Facebook, this is the CPA we want to hit in Facebook.

Brett (34:36):

This is a CPA we're going for, with YouTube or with brand search or with shopping or whatever. But then you have to look at total money in and total money out. Right. Because I talked about the halo effect. Right. Which sometimes you're going to get more conversions and what you see directly in YouTube, but there's also going to be some cases where someone interacts with your Facebook ad and your YouTube ad and then they buy and both, both platforms take credit. Right. So then you're going to like, well, all right, well then how am I, you know, if, if I added up all the conversions from all of my ad platforms, my business would be double the size that it is. Right? Yeah. And so, so you have to measure in platform, but then you have to look at your total dollars on a total dollars app.

Brett (35:17):

Right? So you need a goal of here's my daily sales, here's the percentage of that, that I'm willing to invest in my ads and am I keeping those ratios? Right. So then, and then as you get kind of this, this understanding of, okay, in platform numbers equal what I want for total dollars in total, Laura's out, okay. Now I'm getting somewhere. Or you may say, Hey, what I thought would be good in platform numbers like CPA inside of YouTube, actually isn't giving me the total dollars and until the war's out money that I want, but now I need to adjust my CPA targets. So, so that's kind of a, hopefully that wasn't too nerdy. I think some people are totally jiving with that, but, uh, you gotta, you gotta look at that as well. So be as sophisticated as possible, but know that there's no perfect way to look at it. So that total dollars in total dollars out is really meaningful, really useful.

Dylan (36:08):

And this has been a fire session,

Brett (36:13):

Dude. I had an Americano earlier, which by the way, I think is the best, you know, uh, espresso drink, uh, out there. I do like the latte, shout out to the latte, I'll even do straight espresso sometimes, but I think the Americano is the, is the way to go. And I had a great one just a little bit ago, so

Dylan (36:27):

I'm a cold brew guy, but I'm doing before a podcast. It, I get,

Brett (36:33):

Uh, Cobra is good too, man. Cold brew is good. I generally like that in the summertime. I'm a, give me the hat stuff most of the time.

Dylan (36:41):

Hell yeah, man. Well, this has been super valuable. Give everybody an insight, you know, what are some maybe fun projects coming up? How can we support you? How can they get in touch?

Brett (36:50):

Yeah, absolutely. So a couple of things, one, I do also host a podcast, the e-commerce evolution podcast. So check it out. You and I were just chatting about that. Like how can we collaborate and create some podcast magic beyond just this, this episode? And so stay tuned for that. That'll be fun. So check out that podcast. Also the, the guide I was talking about, click on resources and guides. You'll find it there. Also, if you're, if you don't have good video testimonials from customers, I also created a guide that kind of helps you do that. So I used to do TV interviews with people and like I would interview real customers to try to get them comfortable on camera and stuff. So I give away some of my tips there, uh, you know, how to get good, good testimonials, whether you're in person, which I know is difficult right now, or, or, uh, remote, you know how to do that.

Brett (37:37):

So there's a free guide there. So check that out. Um, and then, yeah, you know, we'd love, we'll love to connect on the, on the socials let's let's talk shop. And, uh, and, and yeah, so, uh, I did, I was telling you, you know, get to speak at the YouTube LA offices in February. So just before the lockdowns, we're actually in our Airbnb and there was talk of crone. We're like, Oh, what's this, what's this, what's this going to be? Uh, but anyway, the event was awesome. It was all to e-commerce brands. And I was teaching them how to run YouTube ads. We're going to do those events again. Um, cause that was the thing that the people generally, Hey, when are you gonna do your next event? So we had plans to do one in Chicago and one in New York. And then of course, obviously those were all shut down, but we're working with Google and maybe doing some virtual events. So if you join our email list, I can keep you posted on those as well. So those will be fun. Those will be like deep dives, uh, with, uh, myself and someone from YouTube doing those virtual events. How can someone

Dylan (38:30):

Subscribe website or website?

Brett (38:33):

Yep. Yep. So, um, if you download any of the guides, you'll, we can put you on the list to be notified of something like that. So that's the easiest way to do it or fill out the contact us, you know, just enlist. So, Hey, don't send me any of your crappy guides, but I want to know about the YouTube event, you know, whatever you want to do. Go ahead and do that as well. Well, Brad man, this has been awesome, man. Let's appreciate it. Thanks for jumping on. Yeah, thanks Dylan. This was,

Speaker 5 (38:55):

And so it gets better. Yeah. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and Richard [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book. Learn more about the book, go to rich ed for to leave a review that a rich had or Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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