How Vinnie crafts perfect internal processes to make sure his teams succeed

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Vinnie Fisher


Vinnie Fisher


Founder and CEO

inTech Software
Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsLive on SpotifyLive on Youtube

I am an entrepreneur, author, husband, and father of 4. I have almost 20 years of experience growing businesses from 7-and 8-figures. After selling our consumer product company in 2014, I decided to fill a huge need for modern accounting to e-commerce and digital companies.

Episode Summary


  • Internal processes NEEDED to scale your teams
  • What can destroy your product return rate and how to fix
  • The importance of having specific roles within the business




Zach (00:01):

In this episode, Vinnie breaks down the rich ad campaign of his $40 million a year supplement business. It is absolutely amazing. Vinny's the King of boring businesses is also the founder and CEO of accountability, which is the back office for many of today's largest DTC and e-commerce brands. He talks about all kinds of financial principles on how to think about reinvesting into your ad. Spend how to think about reinvesting into your growth, how to be a protector defender of your profit margin in the company. And he also talks about really how to avoid situations that are ultimately gonna crush your cash. It's an amazing episode. I hope you enjoy

Vinnie (00:47):

Something big deal. I had to make the things that weren't working in our current offer set my new things. I know that's really weird, but that was the only way in the early days I could overcome this like shiny new create stuff. Cause I felt like new created more momentum than fixing what was right in front of me,

Zach (01:18):

Listening to the rich ad poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with poor ads. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the rich dad, poor ed podcast. This is your host, Zach Johnson. And in today's episode, I think our guests absolutely represents the perfect intersection of finance, marketing and advertising is the founder and CEO, I should say co-founder and CEO of fully accountable, which is a fractional CFO service for e-commerce, uh, online marketers, digital marketers, software businesses, and some of the, really some of the biggest advertisers in the game, uh, today.

Zach (02:20):

So, you know, a ton about finance, but also is a founder and chairman of several other companies. One of which is a massive brand doing eight figures spending tons of money on ads and a called fight age laboratories. We're going to dive into, uh, their ad campaign, his, his quote, not mine, but, uh, fight age labs sees more traffic by 9:00 AM than, than most, uh, websites do in a whole week. So Dylan, are you ready for today's guests? Oh yeah. I mean, I got a buckle up cause I flag. This is gonna be a funny one. This podcast made for Mr. Vinnie Fisher. I'm so excited to have you on the show. Welcome. How are you doing Vinnie?

Vinnie (03:05):

Hey Zach, thanks for having me. I think it's important that we also let everybody know that we had a significant breakthrough pre show where we decided to rename Dylan to dial in

Zach (03:18):


Vinnie (03:21):

Name changes, you know, Hey are bigger than Janet. Jackson's miss at the super bowl.

Zach (03:30):

That's awesome. All right. Dial-in let's, let's dive into it. So Vinny, I just have to say, man, I'm super impressed with, with our whole interaction before this podcast, you truly embody what it means to be the, uh, chairman of a company, uh, because to call your CEO to get the domain of the company of the board that you chair. I think that that is just some serious level management skills to show that you're literally like that far removed from the day-to-day operations. And I think that's a huge Testament to, uh, your, your leadership and organizational capabilities. So my hats

Vinnie (04:12):

Pose some incompetence to, I

Zach (04:14):

Appreciate that

Vinnie (04:21):

On that subject. You know, I I'm actually seem to be living that subject every day right now, where there's this tension I had in the early part of my career. And I, and when I say tension in the early part of my career, this is a real tension that just sticks with you. I, I think of it like other people who struggle with anything in their lives, like for me, I always going to have a food addiction to sugar. One of these things in business that I always have a struggle with is knowing I can do really good at something or really well better than even others. It's something where you have this like hero complex and I've had to learn to be okay with having 70% of the information and 70% of the stuff in order to make a quick, good wisdom filled decision to move forward.

Vinnie (05:06):

And so I have to practice not actually having control or access to a lot of things in order to make and help grow the leaders of the organizations we have. And so, you know, in order to be a chairman of, you know, three of those four companies do eight figures in business, right? And so, you know, to be able to operate, you know, across 150 people that look to us for payroll and to be able to have, you know, spin on a dime on, have an ad discussion, then have an HR discussion. And then, and then like the reality is you can't run those things. And I made a massive mistakes in my career where I took my high propensity to go fast and pulled a lot of levers in different places. And sadly, you've known me long enough to watch me two or three great companies with that, like arrogant. I can do it all attitude.

Zach (06:03):

Oh my gosh, man. You know, I, I, uh, you're definitely much further on that journey and I feel like I'm still learning that. Uh, but I'm really excited to have you on this show, man, you, uh, have so much experience, you know, not only at this, this chairman level of running several eight figure companies, uh, but you're helping so many, uh, folks in advertising that spend seven, eight figures a year getting a grip on their finances. And, you know, I would say like pre fully accountable, like the space was just like looking at your, your Facebook ad metrics and, and, and making a decision as to whether you're going to scale up or down. And, uh, so I'm, I'm more excited about really talking about financial principles and the strategies that you guys are teaching and working with your clients today. But for the sake of the show, I want to dive into the rich ad of what's working now for fight age lab. So Vinnie, can you break it down for us? What, what is this, what is this ad campaign that is, that is gotten you guys to what I mean, you know, several, multiple eight figures. I don't even know if you want to break down some of those numbers.

Music (06:03):

Vinnie (07:26):

I'm going to give you the bigger secret. And it's actually a much broader answer than some of the details in the ad. You know, one of the reasons that fight age is on a rocket ship of growth has to do, will happen to our economy. You know, um, fight age actually lives in niche products, right? Nerve pain, uh, ear ringing, fungus, things that are not, you don't sit around the kitchen table, being excited about those are your products, right? You, you don't, you don't go, Oh my gosh, I love that you sell toe fungus. No, it doesn't.

Vinnie (08:03):

Here's why that company is doing quite well. It's got, it's obviously got, it's got to do a good job for the client. So it's got to meet that need first, right? Like, and it's got a good breakage rate, right? Sub 10%. And it's got all the things that are necessary to be able to operate a business. Like if you're trying to go out and have a converting offer, but you have a 20% plus refund rate and your breakage is all over the place. You're just leaking so much on the back side that I don't care how well you perform. You're just going to bleed to death slowly, giving all your cash back in, handing it either back to the customer or dripping it out before the bottom line ever hits. I can think of so many months when I would run so hard at increasing my EPC.

Vinnie (08:48):

And I would just like, wonder I do a million dollars a month in sales and I'm wonder where's all the money in the bank account. Well, I was just slowly giving it all back because they didn't have a quality ecosystem for the client. But right now, things have massively changed. We have run for the last, you pick the number at least seven years in this abundant economy where everyone has thought like goal orientation, what am I going to do for the next five years of my life? What am I going to spend this extra little margin that I have? And all the fiscal principles that kind of go along with Titan and hot, hard cash flow and things, not like being as loose as possible. We haven't had any of that for the last seven years. And so mass market in ad placement has prevailed.

Vinnie (09:34):

So brain and weight loss and all your favorite little things that everybody jumps on. Cause they, they, they don't innovate. They just copy. Right? They, they that's been, what's been predominant then comes in March 11th and everything starts to change, right? Since we're on an anniversary date, we'll just stick to the Eleven's. Right. And all of a sudden everyone's having an abundant attitude when we no longer have an abundant mindset and the things that worked with abundance, like, like dreaming and get ready for, and like having a summer ready attitude. Like how many times have you joked in your marriage? Or you heard your kids say, or things like, Oh, I just want to get summer ready and all of the good supplementation stuff that people do to, to add to their health regime work quite well. Well, all of that stuff is gone because people are just trying to win the day.

Vinnie (10:31):

Well, one of the things I've been trying to say to people, and I hope they hear me more than the metrics is if you want to win in a category right now, you have to find the niche, not the abundant big mass part of it, because you're going to win in the niche. And that is where you are watching some massive health brands really, really succeed. And we're one of them. And so the re we're we're, we're the number one spot in multiple ad networks on email, on display, because I can show you multiple ad sets at work. But I think the better principle is to think about like, why that would overcome. Cause this time of year right now, usually you would see predominant brain supplement you'd see predominant energy. Cause students back in school, people wanting an edge at work. That stuff is all diluted because no one has an abundant mindset right now. They're just trying to get to Thanksgiving without having to wear a mask. Right.

Zach (11:39):

Then you're like the King of boring businesses. And you crush them. I mean like, like fighting age you're right? Like prostate, fungus, joint relief. This, these are, these are not.

Vinnie (11:52):

And then you started a back office

Zach (11:54):

Solution for like a fractional CFO,

Vinnie (11:59):

Zach, they still do, right. They're like, you're never going to make that work. My own partner who I got the call a co-founder was like, you know, when we get this thing to a small business, what do you think we're going to do? And now we're like alert just in the space where I have over 75 people on the team. I'll tell you something right now. That's another grandpa principle to bring into the show. I used to take my high propensity to move fast and excited and stay in the sexy things at one me like the digital marketer of the year at traffic and conversions and, and all those fun things. I love to market. I love to write copy. I would break our own company because of my boredom. I have actually learned to celebrate things that don't move around so quickly. The little movements, me stepping away a little bit, this 70% principle, because boring actually puts more money in the Fisher empire.

Zach (12:56):

You're here first on the rich and poor I podcast boring, but it's money in Vinny's pocket. I love it, man. Uh, I'm so guilty of this. I'm so guilty of this. This is like speaking to my stuff.

Vinnie (13:08):

You know how many times I hear someone go, Oh, I'm killing it in tick talk. And like the, the, the crack addict in me wants to go jump open a Tik TOK account and like go crazy. And then I'm like, wait a minute. Is that actually, am I going to do that for more than two weeks actually going to do that? Or is that just sound like crack juice? That's going to hit me in my little, like one channel. The turn on is that my like YouTube dream that never went and happened. That's so like, I, I can't tell you and maybe, cause I'm finally at the stage where other people, you know, when you have four CEOs and three CEOs who like you, you suddenly start thinking like how do I help them win instead of making yourself win. But regardless of all, that boredom is actually a compliment. It used to be seen to me as, um, as a discouragement.

Zach (13:58):

Hmm. Oh my gosh. So when you talk about coming back to this, this rich head here, when you say the breakage, like what are some of the things that the audience can take away in terms of like to go clean that up, to go patch that up, right? If they've got over 20 plus percent breakage on, on the backend, what are some of the things that you've done or empowered other people on your team to, to shore that up, that's allowed you to hit the level of scale that you're at right now,

Vinnie (14:27):

George Rivera. Who's my dear pal, who really is the creator of fight age and all this stuff that goes on there. And, you know, he came to me exasperated and before our business deal and said, I can't seem to make some of these things work. I quickly identified looking at the, all of it that he was so great at acquiring the customer, but he didn't do a great job of, of sticking along for the journey with the customer. And, and, and, and I was able to identify that. Cause all I had to do was look in the mirror. I care more, so much about acquiring that first sale instead of keeping someone around and it showed up in their journey, they were high breakage. We quickly came in and said, wait a minute, does this how you want to be treated as a customer? Fine, great.

Vinnie (15:12):

The product works. You meet them basic promise. But if you meet the basic promise, you think that's going to really help add value to the numbers. The mistake is it's already expensive to ship something in a box it's already expensive. You know, 42 cents of every dollar is spent on ad placement, right? It's already expensive on average in e-commerce to win the customer. And then add to that 42 50 you're 13 to 16 cents. You've got to spend to reengage the same customer you already had. So 50 buy cents of every dollar is either spent on a new or a re-engaging a customer you already have to buy. So if you have a refund rate, that's above 12 to 15%, show me where your money's being made because it doesn't exist. It's all gone because at what point, where's your margin. So, you know, we made a decision that this type of business can profit between 22 and as high as 30% margin at the bottom.

Vinnie (16:13):

And if that's true, then we took the principles of fully accountable. You know, they have a staff and they, you know, fight age. All of our sister companies buy time and a service from our own parent company. And we, we laid out what are the things that are important to us. We want to 22% profit margin at the bottom. Okay, great. What are the things that are really broken? And when you break down the benchmark, well, they had a high refund rate. We had a high cost of goods, our ad placement. We found out that we were across too many channels. We were trying to be in every place because every one of our buddies were there. We shut four channels off immediately. And then I separated the front of the department from the back. And this all happened in board meeting. I didn't do the work.

Vinnie (17:00):

Right. They went and executed, thank goodness for them. And, and you know, Kevin and our COO and Chris and George, they all fought and argued and no that's not gonna work the old boys wrong. They did it. And now we're sub 10% refund. Our acquisition costs in certain channels are below 30%. The re-engagement rate the membership up. When all of those things increase, you start looking at better principles like your ad sets. And you say, how much of my capital do I want to redeploy in the new customers? So you can look at things like, okay, I only want to take 25% of my free cash flow and buy new customers. Okay. Why would you say something like that? Whoa, good financial principle. But why would you ever think like that when most e-commerce people will spend every in their pocket to get more customers and they'll live for margin some magical day in the future, that's actually a really bad lie.

Vinnie (17:58):

The direct to consumer space is about is if it already is in, it is about to go through a massive disruption where this idea of just when the eyeballs is going to cause a lot of people to disappear, some real good, old tested principles of how much of your free capital to redeploy for new customers. It's been traditional. That, that number's been 25%. You're going to see some of those things come back and I'm competent that some of the really strong brands in direct to consumer the DTC space, uh, is going to start to realize that not only is cash King, but you can get paid twice. You can make a margin now and your net asset value of your company can be valuable to somebody else. I brought those principles into this company. We've tripled almost quadrupled in size and better. We have more than doubled its profit margin. That's the more exciting part. Wow.

Zach (18:54):

Oh my gosh. Let's just, let's just leave the show. Dial-in let's just let Vinnie roll. Cause you're like killing him any. Oh my gosh. I love it. So talk to me about making these decisions and, and you know, like a lot of these folks are making these decisions retroactively, right? Like sometimes like if they're not working with fully accountable, maybe on a quarterly basis, may you know, definitely not at the end of the month because people are closing the books for a couple of weeks. Uh, like how do you guys fix this over at fully accountable in terms of taking some of these principles and these benchmarks in terms of how much like I love the re-investing 25% of your free cashflow back into growth and in back into advertising because it becomes systematic and not emotional, right? And especially as we go into Q4, so much emotion is going into like, we're going to just absolutely spend as much as humanly possible going into like black Friday. And like it's ver it's. It is not, uh, as thought through, as what you just described,

Vinnie (20:04):

Actually a great designer brand, uh, that is a friend of mine. I'm going to leave the name of her company out of this discussion had that same attitude going into spring break in March. She wanted to go kill it in inventory, get a pre-buy in place. Now she didn't do anything wrong. Would she have ever predicted a pandemic? But she crushed her Pash by having so much of luggage designer, inventory sitting in place. How would you luggage do you think has moved since April and she is literally hanging on trying to make it to that segment coming back? Well, the same thing is true. As you look at kind of ad spend, we, we we'll just dive in and spend the money. I want to say this about fully accountable. We, they, we have learned to just stay in our lane at D all things digital, right?

Vinnie (21:04):

E-commerce software membership, all digital, right? All our people only speak one language, but I wouldn't say this. Anyone else can do this. The only thing you're getting from us is expertise, time and resources. You could do this yourself. We're not, we're not doing anything you couldn't do. The reality is that the investment of time spent doing it is the most important question. So at every day, the reason we win at fight age is there's a team, a data analyst, a controller, and a CFO that wake up and their job from the CFO's perspective is to find out only one metric the profit margin of the company. What is impacting it? The data analysts, their job is what happened in ad creep. Did we go above our thresholds? Are we spending outside of that 25% threshold? And AR is the solving for X, how much we're willing to spend out of every dollar.

Vinnie (22:02):

And let's just call that 42 cents. The magic thing. If we spend above 42 cents, are we hurting margin? And then of course we love the controller because that person's making sure we get our deposits, that we have our payments out, that the thing is free and flow and moving, anybody can do this. And their company fully accountable, just went out and packaged and created a way to help the company win. I don't, I don't want to act like you need to hire fully to like magically land something on the moon. You're actually buying time for it to be done by an expert. And so the reality is what they do is they break down the P and L on a daily basis. When you have a lot of transactions rolling through and you don't have somebody responsible for those three categories, then you're just guessing.

Zach (22:51):

Yeah. Well, I, I would say you guys have done a lot because you've productized that energy. And like, you know, there's a company here in Austin scale factor, these guys phrased like a hundred and some odd million. And all they really do is bookkeeping, man. But there was no strategy. They were order takers. Right? Like you tell me about your business. You tell me like how to do accounting and yeah. But like the, the founder like sold this big dream to VCs. But at the end of the day, it was just a bunch of bookkeepers here in Austin. And there really was like, no tech and

Vinnie (23:27):

Well, the worst part was it was sold AI. That was a bunch of background work being done while everyone was sleeping. So yeah, the bottom dollar bookkeeping is going to produce bottom dollar results.

Zach (23:38):

Yeah. Like I feel like a scale factor was like artificial intelligence, fully accountable as actual

Vinnie (23:48):

Cross is we just stayed in the lane doing the work. You know, from my perspective, fully accountable is an ROI on labor, right? You hire humans to do human work and we produce results because we we've invested in all the resources in the stop and the training. But I, we gotta remember something. I built this to solve my problem. You don't call me up and go. I, you know, you don't even wake up and think, you know, I want Vinny as my CFO, you think like bigger, I've got a stable of them now. And people thought I was out of my mind, investing in a service company back six years ago. Now, now it is a darling it's exploding in growth. We're quite thankful. We have all the wonderful problems of a big service company as it continues to staff out and deal with those things. But the key ingredient there is literally the CEO of the e-commerce company has to decide that he or she wants to be a defender of a profit margin in the company. And at that point, once you actually want to win, win, just more than the top line, you want to win the bottom line. You start to think about things like your back office way differently. And you'll start to, you know, have a profit center mindset around your back office, because you actually want to not just gain a customer. You want a profit,

Zach (25:08):

Oh man, there's this guy we talked to, gosh, maybe a week or two ago, he had a massive F uh, exit in the advertising space. I think it was coming called the ad, uh, back in the day and sold for like $700 million. And normally in this venture funded, you know, arena it's win at all costs, but his rule of thumb was like, we will not create any new products that don't have a 40% profit margin. He's like, yes, we can maybe serve our customers better. Yes. Maybe we can expand into growth, but that was like his number one rule before he had any product or expansion, uh, conversations in the company. And I thought that was like incredibly, incredibly rare

Speaker 5 (25:56):

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Zach (27:15):

Cut Okay.

Vinnie (27:19):

Dial-in let's dive

Zach (27:20):

In, man. Let's roast. Let's roast a ad here. Let's look at this poor ad. Oh, it's prime time. Y'all, you know,

Vinnie (27:32):

Very COVID oriented. Go ahead and check out that email Vinny. Um, we got a special

Zach (27:37):

Once a day. I did some digging to see if it was still active. Actually it's not active. Um, it changed the page name a couple of times. So yeah, we have a pretty crappy add on deck here. Y'all any, what do you think, man? This is, this is this one of your clients.

Vinnie (27:58):

Yeah. I, I tell you, you know, the funny thing is we saw this a bunch, a bunch of clients in jump on, you know, trend trend advertising, uh, is, is, is an interesting animal. It's a great sometimes clickbait way to jumpstart things. You'll hear people use the word pivot, right? Like what can they do during this time? Some people did quite well on the trend advertising, jumping on, uh, some of the items that were early on, uh, effective, like in this pandemic and hand sanitizer was obviously one of them, this ad is off, you know, the word of the change that I think, I think people should take away from this segment of the show. Uh, at least from my, my, this is where, um, people copy stuff and assume it works and, and suddenly breaking down why to have this thoracic view of someone's coughing thing, be awful on a page. What is coughing and to do with hand sanitizer, I guess it does, but, um, and forgetting, picking on the, the elements of the ad. I think that people see something and they run it up and then they live with this awful ad cost, knowing that it's at least producing sales for them, the worst thing that could ever have happened, any of my marketing team on any of our companies is we make just enough sale to think something crappy works.

Zach (29:30):

Oh man, I, I, uh, you're so consistent here all the way through any like jumping right at this, like this anti trend marketing. I mean, this is like anti Lopez here. Cause he's got the trip, but, uh, this is like every one of your businesses as I'm going down your LinkedIn profile right now, it's just a boring, boring, boring, boring, not like none of these businesses you've been involved with have been anything remotely to do with trends. Am I wrong on that? I want to be clear,

Vinnie (30:00):

Checking out the best headlines in BuzzSumo. I

Zach (30:03):

Love looking, don't

Vinnie (30:06):

Get me wrong. That's great headline work, but one of the things, so in my stage of my career, I woke up and realized I want to be paid twice. Trend marketing. Doesn't get you paid twice. It might, if it converts, get you paid right now, but you're not going to build any real asset value for the, for the future. And so there's no consistency in the strategy, but listen, I want to be honest. Like there are people who needed to do some of this stuff just to get through the last quarter or two of their life. And so I'm happy for them. I have a client right now. I'm thinking about that. Did this enhance sanitizer and with some immunity stuff, they had to do it now at the same time, that same client, um, crossed over some lines and got themselves into a little bit of a pickle with one of the regulatory bodies with some language. And that's another risk that happens with, um, with trend marketing is you have to, in order to get eyeballs in conversions, you got to push really hard and run some compliance categories that, um, in order to produce results. So I don't think sometimes, you know, I was raised in the ghetto. And so I don't think that people sign up to do the crime, uh, because they don't really have any, uh, they don't think about the time, uh, that that comes on the penalty box. And so they don't really,

Zach (31:28):

You were just full of these amazing sayings today. Uh, I want to get paid twice. Trend marketing only pays once. Oh my gosh, like a w crime

Vinnie (31:42):

That joke. And there's like someone in our marketing team, who's always like, Oh, I gotta write that in these Vinny isms. And someday I think I'm going to get like some really bad mashed up like,

Zach (31:51):

Yeah, he's on earlier. It was like crash your cash or something, or like crush your cash. I mean, like you're just full of them, man. I love it. We're going to have a ton of sound bites, sound bites for years off this episode, we should go on the road. All right, Vinnie. So this next segment is just like right up your alley. You've already just over-delivered across the board here, but walk us through some financial principles for the advertiser, having the advertiser centric, advertiser first, you know, business owner that is really driving all their business decisions off of their, their ad performance here. What are some do's and some don'ts that you guys are, um, helping your clients with at fully accountable,

Zach (32:40):

But also these, these, uh, these folks can take back to their teams as well. You know, so the whole,

Vinnie (32:47):

Fully accountable was who was around me. Like I, at the time we launched fully accountable, the end of 14 with alive to the world in the early 15, you know, I had seven operating companies and, and, and no bragging, sadly, I was operating almost all of it. Right. And I just would chase whatever channel is everyone said was working. And I remember in, you know, you, you, you w my first health company, you know, we, we broke that one tragically because someone said, Oh my gosh, Facebook's working today. And instead of like, thinking about how to redesign the ad for Facebook, I would just take my crappy email ad and go put it in Facebook and assume it would react the same way. And one of the things that now fast forward, six years later, that I don't work day-to-day with clients, right? So I don't actually like, look at their stuff.

Vinnie (33:49):

I, friends of ours that you would know notable people would call me and say, well, you know how I'm doing? I'm like, no, I have no idea. But if you'd like to like, share with me, then we can talk about it. One of the fun things that I get out of talking to our CFOs, or one of our data analysts is they'll come back with very consistent principles that don't change. And so I'll give you my favorite one that, you know, it's kinda like, uh, uh, Richard Kotch, you know, 80, 20, 23 principle, there are too many people running, too many companies running in too many channels, you know, and, and the 80 20 principle, the first move that a brand specialists will make, or like, uh, someone who's a workout personal do is they'll drop 80% of the skews that a company has and focus on 20% of the skews, that same

Zach (34:40):

Oral surgery.

Vinnie (34:42):

I picked oral. The guy could've picked a different one oral surgery hap should happen at where you're running your traffic. What I would say right now first and foremost is that there should be this lockdown on running on three channels. And if you run on more than three channels, then you are trying to be in too many places. Now, are there good companies running in more than three channels? Yes. And they're the ones that, that you're looking at their season three or four of their business. You're not looking at season one of their business. They, you, you know, my friend drew cannoli over at Organifi, he did such a great job. I would shout out to him about early days. I used to be one of his advisors. He's a buddy, but they would not add more products to their products listing until they could expand out the one they had. Now, you can argue some of their headaches and whatever, but it turned out, they stayed in our channel with a product. And they only added the other ones when they reached the metrics and the number in the margin that they could. So I want everyone to be channeled deep, not channel. Why,

Zach (35:55):

Same thing for skews. I mean, you're, you're hinting at it just like before you went into channel. But like, I think that like, it's perfectly aligned with what clay Collins used to say. My old boss at lead pages, he said, in order to build a seven figure business, and I would even say eight figures, it is, you know, one channel, one product with one audience, with one conversion funnel for one year that was like his rule to like 1 million. Right. That was like his saying. And, uh, what you see is the second you add two products or two channels, the layers of complexity, it aren't added there they're multiplied. And so then you get no reasonable significance, um, across the board. Uh, so,

Vinnie (36:47):

And I would say just to jump on that, cause I love that. And I might actually find that it just fits with all of you. I mean, I've had a lot of at-bats, right? So I didn't just sleep at a holiday Inn. So this isn't like I woke up and I'm like, you know what? Let's try to be boring. That's the problem. It circles back to boredom, right? So if something is working, you know, I want to make it work better. My inclination as a marketer is to go do something new, shiny, because it's more exciting. When in reality, I had to have as big shift in my brain. And I talk about this so much in our meetings for our company meetings, that the shift in my, and I'm only usually having this conversation or these types of conversations with the kind of the front leader, the person who wants to like make new things, not the, not the rank and file who is excited about consistency, but that person who is always trying new offers the dangerous part of that, you wake up wanting to create new stuff.

Vinnie (37:48):

I had to flip in my head, uh, something big deal. I had to make the things that weren't working in our current offer set my new things. I know that's really weird, but that was the only way in the early days I could overcome this like shiny new create stuff, because I felt like new created more momentum than fixing what was right in front of me. But I will tell you, there are more businesses that could get into seven and NDA. If they had an attitude of fixing what's right in front of them, instead of starting something new. And so I'll tell you, I have, you know, we did this for you guys. We created a landing page, um, for your audience that like, we'll give away our books, our stuff, our materials, we want to give it away. All they have to do is opt in and they get it.

Vinnie (38:39):

And we can put that URL in the show notes for everybody. But I wrote a book called the CEO's mindset and it was kind of like this like first phase, like here's how I ran it. Here's what I broke. Here's what I do better. Here's really where I would do to run it. And one of the things in there that I speak about from a general tone is this idea that as a marketer or product developer, we, we will instead of try to optimize an offer and we're really close. We'll just go run another one. And this is it's, it's this, it's this issue of wanting to do something new. It's almost, mavericky entrepreneurial by turning on something new, I've made some progress. And what it does is it dilutes any real chance. So that company is going to ultimately succeed because we're distracted.

Zach (39:29):

Whoo. Hey, you crushed it. Oh my gosh. I love it, man. You're you're, you're the best pot we're going to have you, we're going to have you back on this show. This has been absolutely amazing. Tell everybody, you know, what this URL is, how we can support you while you're excited about next and, and how people can get in touch.

Vinnie (39:48):

Okay, great. Yep. So we have, um, a fully Forrest slash rich ad. You will be able to go there and actually get, we're going to give you a books. We're going to give you the things that we would say to do. If you want to go run your back office as a profit center, we have built you tools there that you can go do this yourself. You can buy time and expertise from us, but you can also do this. I want everyone I'm on this mission to have CEOs have enough financial fluency to go win at this game.

Zach (40:22):

Thank you, Vinny filled it. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or ed book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for to leave a review that a rich ad for Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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