Jordan Menard is the CEO and founder of Traffic Pilot, an e-learning platform that teaches people how to become highly-proficient digital marketers who can charge high-ticket prices for their services. He is also founder and CEO at the digital agency Longform Creative and has served as a Strategic Marketing Specialist for PayCertify, Head Media Buyer for Consulting.com, founder and CEO of Surf Media , and Marketing Director for FranConnect.
Jump in on a hugely informative and entertaining convo with CEO and founder of Traffic Pilot and Longform Creative, Jordan Menard where we’ll talk about his winning long form copy approach to paid advertising for folks like Robert Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, Dan Lok, Sam Ovens and managing over $100M in spend. Find out how an ad with the simple “My Friend Adrian is an e-comm genius” headline made $2M in 12 months. Roast an Alibaba ad that’s dumb as a box of rocks. What happened to his brain and work product when he literally threw away his phone for 3 months. Plus financial insights on why cash grab spending on a Lambo is lame-o and what you should do with the money you earn from paid advertising instead.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we talk with Jordan Menard about his winning long form copy approach to paid advertising. Jordan has done a paid advertising for the folks like Robert Kiyosaki, high Lopez, Dan Lok, Sam ovens, and many more manage over a hundred million in spend check out this episode. At the end of the podcast, he talks about how to think about paid advertising as a cash flow investment versus a cash grab investment for all you internet marketers, trying to buy Lambo is off of their ear, 50 K a month ad spend. Don't do it. Listen to this episode with Jordan Menard, it's an awesome lead entertaining.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
They don't think about it from a cashflow perspective. They think about my cash grab perspective. And so they think that if they can just make the most profit as, as quickly as possible, that that is amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Seeing you're listening to the rich ad poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with poor ads. Let's get into it. All right,
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Buddy. Welcome to another episode of the rich dad, poor ad podcast. We're going to dive into kind of, what's working a really ad and then some kind of more financial tips, you know, so we have a very special guest today, mr. Jordan Menard, um, the creative traffic pilot, the world's first preeminent digital marketing e-learning platform. And not to mention this guy's slang and some ads, but Hey Zach, you ready for this one? Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, man. I'm excited to have on I'm I'm a fan boy of Jordan's work. He's worked with some pretty, pretty big names. Knows, knows the world of advertising. I think he's worked with like, gosh, anybody that's like in, in internet marketing and biz up from Ty Lopez, the Sam ovens, Dan Locke, freakin Robert Kiyosaki, Jordan Belfort. Um, he's worked behind the scenes of some pretty, pretty big campaigns. And uh, I'm also excited to talk to him about what, what, what he's up to and working on, uh, himself as well. So let's get him on the show.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
Jordan was good, man. Thanks for jumping on what's going on guys. Thanks for having me, um, pretty crazy to hear, uh, you know, I always say that, uh, people don't know me, but they've probably seen my work. So when you hear who I've worked with on the info marketing side, uh, yeah, that's really what I'm known for, but, um, you know, I like to do a lot of, a lot of different, uh, stuff as well. I like it, dude. I mean,
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You were just touting the fact that you've probably spent over a hundred million on ads over your career over what, let me say the last five years, is that fair to say?
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Yeah, I would probably say five, six years. Um, and that's gone up and down and that's been over, you know, different platforms, everything from Google display, uh, native Facebook, um, since I've started my Facebook agency, um, we really focus on Facebook and Instagram, but I still run Google search YouTube. Um, really any network I can run on.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So one things that, that, uh, I knew about Jordan before Jordan knew about me is I was impressed with Jordan's long copy skills. There's very few, uh, people immediate buy and tech can do long form creative well, um, and most, pretty much stick to short form just to get the click and, and make the funnel do the work. Uh, but Jordan, you know, I'm a fan boy in the sense that I think you do a better job of pre-qualifying the click than, uh, the thousands of agencies that I know of here at funnel. So, um, yeah, I'm excited to have you on the show.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I appreciate that. That's actually, the name of my agency is long form creative segue I've ever heard. We could not have done that better. Yeah. That's the name of my agency as long form and um, you know, I think it's pretty obvious what we specialize in and people always ask me, you know, a lot of e-com guys, right? They're like, ah, too long for my copy. Doesn't matter. It's all the image. It's all that I'm like, Oh, is it really? Or are you just saying that because you're not making me images right.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
In e-comm you can get away with crap. Copy. Right. It's it's so visceral it's so it's so crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I got evidence on this, this argument, right? That is it doesn't copy. Doesn't matter for e-commerce. So I was like, let me write an ad. I wrote an ad for them. It was selling beef jerky and I made the dynamic creative with an angle. It was way longer than anything they had, but I pulled a story about jerky. I tied the craziest stuff into that story. Before you knew it, you were ordering a bag of beef jerky supporting the troops and being a good Patriot American, you know, and when did she know that ad hit at like 5.5? My buddy hit me back and he's like, what's up scale daddy, that beef jerky dynamic creative you made is that a 5.5 row ads. And so that's a story of how coffee does matter. Now you can get away with it. But that doesn't mean that you can approach your actual ceiling. Yes,
Speaker 1 (05:58):
Love it. I love it. We're getting into it, man. This is good. Let's just dive into it, man. Like what's the rich end what's working right now. Let's break it down.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
So right now, um, I, you know, I, I don't mean to sound like we have a lot of ads that are working, right. I could have shown a lot of things. Um, I decided to talk about a webinar ad. Uh, like you said, I'm known for info marketing. So I had an ad that was with Bob Proctor and Adrian Morrison. And the angle is called my friend, Adrian. And in less than a year, this ad has made about $2 million. Literally one ad I spend between five and you know, three to seven a day, depending on, you know, what the marketplace is like. And I'm pulling anywhere from seven to 20, um, just an automatic webinar. The whole thing here is I pass it so many hours against this and this one always wins. And the headline is very simple. My friend, Adrian is an ecom genius.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
And the ad starts by saying when I first thought, you know, when I used to think about e-commerce my mind immediately went to Jeff. Why? When Amazon took like 20 acres or whatever, then just went higher. Amazon took like some massive place, a massive percentage of the marketing. Um, until I met my friend, Adrian Morrison, now I'm not selling anything. I'm telling the story. You have no idea what the product is. You have no idea what my pitch is. I get into that later, but that was the best performing ad we had. And how I want to kind of kick this off on what's working for me is not focusing on what that specific ad, but the general narrative that we adopt, which is create better angles. Look at marketing from a big picture standpoint and the ads as the outlet or the amplifier for all of the business efforts, the creative efforts you do on the backend.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
That's where the needle is actually moved. Too many people focus on one single hack or one single element, or because it works over here. It should work over here. When the reality is you need to be making new creative with the purpose of entertaining people before you ask for their money, right? It's the same thing that Joe Rogan does. Joe Rogan in the world of content creation. Everyone is making my wish dribble. That's really short look at TechTalk right? Those the whole content platform is centered around videos that don't have any substance in the sea of meaningless. You have very rare creators like Joe Rogan, who are super, super long form yet they're capable of monetizing at a way higher. It's just not even close. And how does that happen? It's because Joe, Joe Rogan's podcast is worth money because so many people listen to it. And so many people will buy what Joe Rogan says to buy because he created content that he thought was interesting. He genuinely believed it was the best content. And so many media buyers are trying to just appease the masses and only think about the clip and totally forget that that's a real person behind that CPR. That is a real person with a light, with problems, with political views, the whole thing. And when you look at your marketing from that perspective, you're always going to win and you won't be a one trick pony
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Wrap up on that. And that's pretty good stuff. Thanks Jordan, go into church, go into marketing church that So good. So good. So this I, man, I mean, webinar ads are difficult, right? Like, so this, this ad was a webinar ad long form. It was, I mean, was it a video or was the image like, like what was the actual image behind it?
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, I use that in a creative video image. I want to maximize the amount of real estate that I can buy. So vertical images, but it's all centered around the angle. Now we have some pick outs to be honest, and this one images actually work better than video and that happens in webinars. Um, but the media is centered around being congruent with that angle. So there's a video of Bob and Adrian talking that it's an image of Bob and Adrian standing in front of the, the, the desk that they did, the presentation and that went out, perform the video. So as long as the media is ruined with the angle, I don't think it's reliant upon a single type. I think both are the best.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Gosh, that's so refreshing. I love it. I love it. I'm such a fan.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
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Speaker 1 (12:13):
Check it [email protected] All right, let's dive into it. Let's let's talk about some, some fails is done this time. It's done break it out. Dylan. Jordan, I just sent you an image on messenger, man. I want you to just give us your first thoughts on this ad. Yes, Zach, you already know our biggest fan Alibaba. These guys are, uh, these guys are going to sponsor our podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. Now is this some straight or some straight shot, straight fire? Um, I mean, I really love the minimalistic approach that they've used here. This is, uh, this is horrible. I can only imagine that this was like a dynamic creative malfunction or dynamic product ad malfunction, but either way the images so useless, it's incredible. And the best part was, is I found this on the Facebook ads library, just scrolling through all their active ads. And once I saw you can buy rocks for starting at $0, I was hooked immediately. So I mean, you know, strong headline, you're not, you're not, you should see Dylan's newsfeed.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
It's true. Basically is making money off of, off of Dylan's newsfeed. So many click-through rates, it's just stupid, you know? Yeah. Definition of a ad, you know, CTC. Uh, but yeah, see PCs. That is amazing. And what product before it's gotta be cool or rocks or some Santa giveaway thing. It comes with four stockings to fun fact. No. Oh my gosh. That was a, that was a breath of fresh air. Thank you, Dylan. Thank you, Dylan. All right, Jordan. Let's keep rolling. Let's keep rolling. All right. So yeah, the show really hangs at the intersection of finance and marketing. So Jordan give us some juicy principles, advice around scaling ads, whether it's managing budgets, whether it's, you know, thinking about funding ad spend, tell, tell us how you think about this. Both from the agency, you know, media buyer's perspective, but also how you're thinking about it for your own, um, brands. What are some do's and do not. So when it comes to funding and, and investing in ads.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Sure. So, um, I think the biggest thing is, uh, people will take the money they make from ads and then like go buy a Lambo. Um, when the money, the money that you make from ads is essentially energy, right? If you just pouring back into the machine, as opposed to doing something that makes you appear rich, you can actually build something that has longevity, but what a lot of people do with ads is they don't think about it from a cashflow perspective. They think about it from a cash grab perspective. And so they think that if they can just make the most profit as, as quickly as possible.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Amazing. Oh, I love that soundbite. I'm so sorry to interrupt you just in your mid river flow, but investing in ads is all about cash flow and not a cash grab. Oh my gosh. I love it. That's so good. So money.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Thank you. Thank you. That will be the episode bite for sure. I'm not going to say anything better for the rest of it. There I've definitely peaked. Um, but so on that note, it's like people don't look at ads in the right way, really right. People look at ads as like, Oh, this can solve the problem of, you know, that I'm not getting, let me, let me rephrase this people that run ads, they would rather build, you know, a bunch of new campaigns with three ad sets instead of two with day parting rules and a B test between target costs and costs to get that 0.3 better row ads. When in actuality, they should be thinking of how can I offer my products in a way that makes people think it's a great deal. And so people are, are missing. They're approaching the entire idea of what advertising is for, uh, in a bad way.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And so then they'll take money that they made for that and buy something that doesn't have any ability. No, it's not an asset. They just throw it away in something. And then when the platform changes or the offer will go stale, that financial situation they've got themselves into now will hinder them for the next 10 years, as opposed to just being a small blip in which they can get up. If you look at companies that are extremely successful, like Apple, they have hundreds of billions of dollars on reserve in cash. Now they pay out their executives, but they understand that cashflow is necessary to weather the storms that allow you to make the bigger profits and seeing advertising as a player in that game, as opposed to something that can just make you a bunch of money to put it in your pocket is the difference between great advertisers and people who are victims or who are at the whim of the platform. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Hmm. Oh man. It's so good. I love it. What else, what else do you wanna say, man? Let's just, let's just give you like another 10 minutes, like talk about whatever you want on the podcast. Cause you just spent three minutes, your podcast.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Uh, so yeah, I'm uh, I'm dropping an album. It's a super stick mixed tape. No, I'm kidding. Um,
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Uh, no. So what I'm most interested in right now is, uh, you know, the things that like, um, are really, you know, I, I'm a big believer, right? Let me phrase it like this. Uh, Pablo Picasso says that, uh, I know of no other way to produce a great work then great periods of solitude. And his point being is the only way to do something really, really cool is to spend a good amount of time by yourself working on it. And so that sounds good in theory, but how do we do that? And so when I started some projects about a year ago that I didn't know what the power of my whole life, but they did. Um, I didn't, you know, deep work was the name of the game and it was that all day, every day. But I found that when I would sit down to do six hours of work, I constantly got distracted.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I would be, I would go on Instagram, I'd be scrolling Facebook. And I didn't know why it was almost like I mindlessly just went and did it. And you know, I couldn't figure it out. So I started reading a bunch about this and found that basically my brain was the victim of unearned dope and a good example of an unearned dopamine loop. Very obvious. It would be like a smoker, right? A smoker will tell you when they're stressed, they need to smoke a cigarette to calm down. Now that's like saying, I need to drink a cup of coffee to calm down. Like tobacco is a stimulant, right? It gets you up, but they still find relief relief from it. That's because there's a dopamine release in the brain when you smoke the cigarette and you're chasing that and that provides you a high, right? So that's an obvious one, a less obvious one is the result of why I was constantly distracted when doing deep work.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
And that was things like Instagram, right? Instagram gives you a dopamine release that makes you entertained without doing anything to deserve that reward. Our brain used to get dopamine from like hunting elk for four hours. Right? That's a very, you know, the dopamine mean releasing only at the end. It's only when you do something productive. Now we can get it just looking at Instagram. Our brain interprets dopamine in binary. I E it has it and wants more or it doesn't have it and doesn't want to do it. So I was trying to do something that was super valuable, but couldn't focus because I had so many unearned dopamine loops in my brain that had the most, even the most productive work was impossible compared to scrolling Instagram or Reddit. So I threw away my phone literally for three months, just got rid of it and what don't, you know, it, those problems went away.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
When I brought, when I reintroduced my phone back into my life, it didn't have any power and now I forget it all the time. I leave it on airplane mode most of the day. And so if you can solve those issues as an entrepreneur, you will figure out the things that are preventing you from succeeding at a massive scale. And these are the things that make you successful in an almost self-fulfilling prophetic type manner, right? It's like, how did you ever seen someone? And you just know they're successful. This is what I'm talking about. You can reprogram your brain to be that person, but you have to be willing to go the lengths to do it. And I think that if people are focused on these things, they would find their whole business model is full as opposed to full foot.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
I just got some dopamine off that. That was awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah. That's the whole point, you know, you gotta get that. You gotta get that. Don't be me release baby.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
That's great. No, we, we, we, you know, we, we gave you the floor and that's where you went, so I love it. Absolutely love it. Um, Jordan, you've been an amazing guest. Thank you so much for opening up. Like I, uh, I will definitely have you back on heck, maybe even have you on as a co-host and you can invite some of your dopamine friends. I don't know. Where can people get in touch? What, uh, how can people get in touch? What are you up to next?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah. Um, so, uh, track your power.com. Um, it's, uh, you know, it's, it's um, when I, you know, I've been on the back end of so many courses, when I decided to build one on my own, I realized that, you know, if I'm going to do this, it has to work. And so I thought about why people aren't successful and the answer is worse because of things like I just said, I could teach them all the CBO, all the ad hoc, everything, and they would still fail because they're not successful people, traffic, pilot addresses that root cause a week or so a week, one day three actually teaches you how to the new digital, fast, how to do a social media fast, reprogram your mind. And, um, the whole thing, you know, most courses are like the job I had to make my own platform because of all the gamification and things and features that I wanted to ensure that if people bought this course, it would actually change your life.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's thinking about the long-term instead of the short term. And so, uh, traffic pilot became that thing and we just released it. The initial beta it's gone extremely well. Everyone that has purchased it loves it. Um, it comes with lifetime membership to my group where I go live every Monday. And basically, if you want to learn how to master traffic, if you want to learn how to trade attention for money traffic, uh, you can start with the free training. And yeah, that is so cool, man. I mean, you see like incorporated gamification dopamine hits into your training for media buyers, right? Like essentially you're training up full stack agencies, media buyers, like anybody who wants to learn Facebook, Google ads, like they should go to traffic, pilot.com. They should go to traffic, palette.com. It's the same gamification that makes people waste their time use to for self-improvement. I flipped the script. Wow. That is amazing. So if you don't know how to read, or if you, uh, you know, just have a struggle paying attention or just suck at life, there's hope for you, uh, go to traffic, pilot.com. I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Give it a round of applause. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor dad.com/podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me [email protected] Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed a.com to leave a review that a rich ed for at.com/review. Thanks again.
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Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR