Netmarket Resources and Sam Bell Marketing owner, Sam Bell is described as a “social ads engineer” who creates ads and launches campaigns that deliver high-ticket leads and prospects to coaches, consultants and digital product creators. Prior to starting his agency he served as Managing Member at Photo Master and as IT Support for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. He attended Georgia State University Perimeter College where he studied Information Technology.
Zach Johnson (00:01):
In this episode, Sam bell, and I debate the pros and cons of webinar funnels. It's a pretty heated discussion. I think you'll enjoy it. Plus Sam talks about how he does AI fingerprint tracking for all his clients, spending 30 to 50 K a month. He's a King of paid media when it comes to coaching and consulting, enjoy the episode,
Sam Bell (00:23):
The webinar, and actually it actually do it. And I suggest people when they're first starting, if you're just beginning and you do not have data to support it, I don't recommend you spend $50,000 a month. Um, and I recommend that before you go to automated webinar, you actually do it live. Um, for several reasons, [inaudible],
Zach Johnson (00:50):
You're listening to the rich add poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with poor ads. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the rich and poor ed podcast. This is your host, Zach Johnson, and I'm with Mr. Dylan Carpenter. How are you doing today, Dylan? Good man. We're back we're back.
Zach Johnson (01:31):
Today's guest is the go-to Facebook ad media buyer for the coaching and consulting and info marketing industry. I think I've known this guy for, I don't even know several years. I'm excited to have him on the show, but he's working with some pretty big names. Folks like Cody Sperber from clever investor. You have running from a stealth seminar, um, Davin Michaels from one, two, three employee now in the world of coaching and consulting and like high ticket offers is like a totally different animal. And, uh, it just then, you know, running ads for, let's just say e-commerce or direct to consumer is a totally different animal than run ads for, um, you know, SAS or, or local. And so I think today's guest is Sam bell from Sam bell marketing and Sam knows everything there is to know when it comes to running Facebook ads. If you've got a coach, a coaching offer, ebook offer book, offer high ticket offer, uh Sam's Sam's the guy. So now further do Sam bell. Welcome to the show.
Sam Bell (02:48):
Thanks for having me, Zach man, uh, super excited to be here, uh, as always. Uh, so, uh, yeah man, this is, this is awesome. I'm excited today.
Zach Johnson (02:57):
That's good. That's good. Get everybody a little bit of a background, right? So, uh, you've been at this game for quite a bit, but getting everybody a little bit of context of what you're up to these days and what what's got you moving in.
Sam Bell (03:10):
Sure, man. So, um, so just real quick, uh, I got into this business, I started my agency back in 2009 by accident and I actually wasn't, uh, it wasn't intentional. Uh, my background is actually in real estate investing and I transitioned from an active real estate investor to doing information marketing in the real estate investing space. Uh, and around 2009, there was a big Google slap, right? This is when Google was really the only game in town when it came to running ads on online, you know, Facebook advertising as a platform didn't really exist at that point in time. So a lot of the people who were dependent on Google to run their ad campaigns, got their accounts banned because they changed their policies. So, um, I just started doing some consulting work, just helping people out that want it to be able to run ads compliantly without worry about getting their ad account shut down.
Sam Bell (04:04):
And right out of the gate, we were running a webinar. We were running ads on the Google display network to automated webinars. And that was kind of how I got started in this business. Um, obviously since then, uh, that's evolved, uh, to obviously we still run on Google. Uh, we do YouTube, but we probably spend, I would probably say 80% of our marketing budgets. Our client's marketing budgets on Facebook, uh, predominantly, and we really refined our process. So, you know, we just made the decision that, you know, because we started in the information marketing space just to really go all in on that space and really specialize, uh, with high ticket automated webinars for people who are either selling digital products for a thousand to $3,000. So if you have a digital offer or you're selling some sort of service-based coaching consulting offer from anywhere from five to $30,000 and you need to drive strategy sessions,
Dylan Carpenter (05:06):
I mean, what's the playbook for this segment though. Like I automated webinars like those, those are difficult. I haven't run ads to automate a webinar in awhile, but like what's, what's the playbook for anybody with a high ticket offer these days? What does that funnel and that campaign look like?
Sam Bell (05:23):
So believe it or not, the actual funnel structure itself is pretty, pretty straightforward. It is really all the nuances that go, um, in between it that really make it effective or not, but ultimately it always boils down to the offer itself, right? So, you know, I don't care how great of a funnel you have and you know, how great you are Facebook ads. If your offer does not provide a solution or some sort of dramatic transformation or the end user, then it's not going to work. Right. So first and foremost, you've got to have an offer that, that converts and you have to be able to convey, you know, and I tell all my clients that it's like your offer, especially if you're selling a high ticket offer to get someone to get on the phone with you, your offer needs to convey two core beliefs during the webinar presentation, in order for someone to move forward.
Sam Bell (06:12):
And the first belief is that a, that you are someone that can help them. You have the credibility and you have the, uh, the social proof, the proof that you can actually deliver a result. And then the second belief is that you have, um, you know, case studies of either from yourself or from clients that you've helped. So that way they can create a direct correlation to conceive in their mind that they also can get that end result, whatever it may be. Right. So if you're teaching people how to, you know, buy and sell real estate, you're teaching people how to trade stocks or you're teaching people how to have a health transformation. Um, if you can convey those two beliefs and you can incorporate obviously some conversion strategies in the webinar and get people to schedule a call, then we can actually help you scale that, um, all the way to the moon.
Sam Bell (07:03):
So in terms of the actual structure itself, uh, it's pretty straightforward. So we generally run ads from Facebook to an automated webinar. Uh, we personally use stealth as our platform of choice, uh, for automated webinars. Uh, we use just-in-time webinars. We've found just through our testing over the years that that performs the best of cold traffic in terms of maximizing your show up rate, because you want to make sure, obviously if you're spending money on traffic, you want to get people to actually watch the offer. And I found that, um, by doing the just-in-time webinar because of the webinar experience itself, people will actually stay there and consume it more so than a video sales letter, if you will, right? Because people can pause and stop the environment is different, right? So it has a different impact on them psychologically. So on average, our attendance rates for our just in time webinars range, anywhere between 40 to 60%, um, for, for an automated webinar.
Sam Bell (08:01):
So from there, um, the webinar itself now our minimum goal, our minimum threshold is for the webinar to convert at a minimum of 15%. Now, some people may say, well, that's really high for a webinar, but you have to understand that we're not, if we're not selling anything. And only thing we're trying to do is get someone to take the next step to book an appointment. It's not that, you know, 15% is not unheard of, right? It's very reasonable to get someone to go from a webinar. What he's spent, you know, 60 minutes, 45 to 60 minutes of their time, you know, really understanding what it is you offer really understanding the transformation that you offer, uh, and compelling them to take the next step to schedule a call. So from there, from the webinar, we generally will send them to a survey. So they'll be some preliminary questions that they have to answer prior to them booking a call, and then once complete that, then they'll have the opportunity to schedule a call.
Sam Bell (08:59):
Uh, and then on the thank you page, uh, there will be a obviously, uh, you know, uh, congratulate, congratulatory, uh, video, and then there's a, a ton more social proof testimonials just to let people know, like they're in the right place. And this is the possibility, this is what can happen, you know, by you showing up and taking action, because these are people who were where you are at this point in time that took the proper steps. And now these are the results that they receive. So, you know, it's a very simplistic process in terms of the funnel structure. Now, when you dig into the ad side of things, it can get a little bit more complex, right? Because there, we want to maximize, maximize our traffic because the way the metrics break down, um, on average, let's just say, if you're selling a $5,000 offer, whatever that may be, um, the way that the metrics break down minimum, um, we'd like to be at around a $10 cost per lead, maximum for a webinar registration, a 50% show up rate.
Sam Bell (09:59):
So on average we'll spend around $20 per attendee. Um, you know, our first goal is to put a few hundred people on the webinar. So, you know, for every hundred people, we should get at least 15 people who schedule and book a call, right. And then from there, uh, we you're generally going to get around a 70% show up rate to the actual phone call. And then from there, the sales team should be able to convert at least 20% of those people into, uh, pay customers. Right. So, uh, but because of that, right, you have, you're only getting 50% of the people to show up. So what happens to the other 50%? Right? Well, obviously we have top of funnel ads where we run cold traffic, right? So we're prospecting and driving people into those funnels and the people that go through that process, obviously they're very hot, but if they don't, then we have, you know, a middle of funnel tier one, which is basically people who visited the website, but didn't register.
Sam Bell (10:52):
So then we obviously retarget those people back. Um, and we create custom audiences, literally for every single step of the funnel. So we track and see, you know, where they are, where someone dropped off and then we'll have a tier one middle of funnel. Tier two middle of funnel would be someone who registered, but did not actually attend the webinar. And then we'll drive those people back. We'll have a segment of audience that will drive as to those individuals driving back to the replay page. And then the people who've actually attended, but did not apply. That's more of the bundle of, uh, bottom of funnel strategy where we'll then have specific messages and audiences that drive those individuals back to a testimonial page with the opportunity for them to then schedule and book a call. So, you know, there's some complexities in terms of how you actually structure a structure that, but, uh, that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Sam Bell (11:47):
Yeah. Wow. I mean, that pretty much breaks down a webinar. It's a simple funnel structure, but really it's
Sam Bell (11:54):
Not easy to pull off. I feel like most people that, that have this type of funnel kind of hover in the 30 to 50 K a month ad spend range. I there's very few that I see really scale past that. I mean, you're like a unicorn, if you have a webinar, like, I dunno like, like a salmon spending, you know, six figures a month, but most people fair to say Sam, correct me if I'm wrong, like 30, 50 K a month, like hover in this area, what, what do they expect in terms of ROAS on that level of spend? It's all said and done
Sam Bell (12:28):
The minimum role as that we shoot for, uh, on that type of funnel is a three to one. And I'll see it, I'll see a range anywhere between three to five, depending on the price point itself. Right? So, you know, if you're at a 5k probably going to be around the three row as if you're at maybe a, say like a 10 to 15 K, then you're going to be somewhere around four to five potentially. So in a good, the great thing about high ticket offers. And one of the reasons that, you know, are I personally really liked them. And my clients really liked them is that, you know, the amount of money you can spend to acquire a customer, you know, so much more. So if I'm competing against someone in the Facebook auction block for, you know, the same audience where they can only spend, you know, 50 to a hundred dollars to acquire that customer, I cannot spend them all day in terms of bringing those people into, uh, into my funnel. All right. And you know, when you're selling a $5,000 offer, you know, our average cost per cell will be around a thousand bucks, right? So that may seem high, but if it's a $5,000 offer, no, it's a great, that's a great offer, right? Where else are you going to go and get, you know, a 400% return within the 30 day timeframe?
Sam Bell (13:48):
I think it's amazing right here, but there's some caveats to this model as I've wizened up over the years when it comes to funding, right? Like ROI and ROAS, doesn't really tell the whole, the whole picture. Right? There's, there's two problems I have with this model. One is the efficiency of capital and two is the payback period or time and the amount of money that it takes to learn and scale. Right. So let's just walk this through for a second. The first one is efficiency of capital, right? If I'm selling, let's just say a $99 or what heck let's just do like a free book plus shipping offer, right. It will just stay in the same vertical. I was going to go eat conference second, right? Let's just say I'm like $7. Like I have a lot more feedback right on, on my thousand dollars in spend as to what's working and not working and being able to iterate on that funnel several times a week.
Sam Bell (14:49):
Uh, and the feedback is so much tighter in webinars. I mean, you like, you have to spend, if it's a $5,000, $5,000 offer, like you have to spend five grand to even like, no, if, if you're breaking even, and then the, the assets that like exist in this category are not easy to create, right? Like a 60 minute, like pitch perfect like presentation, uh, yes, there are templates, but like that takes some serious time. If you want to like, change up your offer and do like a webinar rerecord, you're going to only like do that, like maybe every other week or once a month. So like the learning and iteration is my problem with these funnels, efficiency of capital. And then the last one is really payback period. And I'm going to, hopefully I'm going to cue all those up for you, Sam, because I want to be a believer in this again, but I've been I'm jaded.
Sam Bell (15:47):
I don't have in our funnels, man. So like the time to break even on this is like D right. You run ads, you gotta nurture people up, warm them up with your video ads. You got to get them on the webinar. You've got to wait a week for them to book a call. I know there are closers out there that are one called closers on five, 10, 15 K. But there's also a lot of stragglers that are on payment plans. And then the payment plan, like drop off, doesn't tell the whole story. And so a lot of these funnels you're yes, the ROI is great, right? Like putting a dollar in and getting $3 out, putting a dollar and getting $5 out. But like, when are those three and $5 coming back in? Right. Cause a payment plans are a big part of this. And I find a lot of these aren't really hitting those ROI numbers until 60, sometimes even 90 days, which is kind of a scary place if you're spending 50 grand a month, right. It's like, Hey, like I need, you know, 150 grand to throw at this thing. So that's, those are my complaints, Sam,
Sam Bell (16:47):
Those are all, those are all very valid points. And I actually, I agree with you a hundred percent like this particular model, although it is a Soden position as the Holy grow, it definitely takes a lot of work and a lot of people. So there's basically two, two types of people, right? So you have people who are experienced and have sold their offers, but maybe they haven't necessarily done it with cold traffic. Maybe they've done it organically or with JV traffic and they've had the opportunity to dial it in. Right. So they are pretty clear on their messaging. They have data already, right? Then you have those who are just starting out. Um, the offer is good, right? But they may not be well-versed in, you know, selling one, a webinar or really how to structure a webinar and put that together. So they don't really have the data to support it.
Sam Bell (17:39):
So they're going to have to prove the webinar and actually, and actually do it. And I suggest people when they're first starting, if you're just beginning and you do not have data to support, I don't recommend you spend $50,000 a month. Um, and I recommend that before you go to automated webinar, you actually do it live. Um, for several reasons. The first reason is that you want to get comfortable doing your presentation and making adjustments. The second reason is that you get real time feedback from the people who attend, because there may be objections that arise. There may be questions that arise that you may not have even thought of where you're able to incorporate that into your, uh, into your webinars. So if you're doing this twice a week or at minimum one live webinar a week, what sounds like a lot, knowing that the ultimate goal is to get it to evergreen and you can actually get that. You can get that data back. And in a very short period of time, you can get that feedback and make continuous improvements iterations. Now, in terms of
Sam Bell (18:46):
You bring up my third point, you bring up another point, Sam, which is webinar funnels. I don't think create freedom. I think they've make like every business owner, a slave to webinars funnels. I had a webinar funnel in, you know, in my days at lead pages, Ontraport, like we did really well with those. And, you know, with FunnelDash, we try to make our webinar funnel work for like a solid year before I just like gave up. And I tr I turned my entire webinar script into a book it's called the agency growth book.com. And then the, the second, you know, iteration off of it was rich ed puerette book. Um, dad, poor ed.com. And that funnel gave me so much more freedom because every time my media buyer or the agent that I was working with at the time, they're like, Hey, Zach, like, we need you to do this other webinar we record, or we need to show up like for an hour or two hours every single week.
Sam Bell (19:40):
And don't get me wrong. Like I'm committed to my business, but like the book funnel, there's no VSL on the book. Right? Like, so I was able to delegate that to a copywriter. The upsells are all texts and all copies. So I was able to delegate like the funnel optimization piece to an agency. And I spent like way less time on like everything that goes into making a webinar funnel work. So, um, so I want to be a believer again, but like, I, that was, that was my personal story when I stopped, like doing webinar funnels for other people. And, and back in my agency days, like we got, uh, like Dr. Axe, like we, you know, we got him like a webinar funnel that was working and we we'd done a ton of these for other clients, but I could never make it work for myself. So I apologize. It's such a skeptic.
Sam Bell (20:34):
No, that's awesome, man. But I mean, if you think about it and it's, you know, webinars are one of the most effective ways to sell products and services, especially now in the middle of, you know, COVID, you know, people are having to make that transition, right? So you see in all of these, you know, people doing zooms and things like that, but there's one thing, you know, there's, there's a big difference between doing a webinar when you're just presenting, you know, information. And it's another, it's another thing where you're presenting a webinar to either generate a sell or make an appointment. And I agree like all client acquisition by acquisitions are not meant for webinars. There are a certain type of businesses that it suits best. So I think if you're selling a SAS type of platform, a high ticket SAS platform, um, if you are doing coaching consulting services that are high ticket, like those are ideal scenarios.
Sam Bell (21:32):
Do I think everyone who has like a, uh, like a book or something like that should be doing webinars? No, it's not, not unless you have a high enough high enough, 30 day order value, average order value. And you know, what your lifetime customer value is to justify it. Now, if, if I know for a fact that for every webinar or buyer that I get, or every appointment that I scheduled that within the first 30 days, that customer is worth 5,000, $10,000, then yeah, it's absolutely worth it to put in that work. And it also depends too on, you know, your business structure and business strategy, right? Some people want to create lifestyle businesses where it's more of a passive thing. Some people want to be more involved in the growth type of business. Now I will say that once you begin to put these components in place and they're actually performing and converting, you absolutely can have a lifestyle.
Sam Bell (22:31):
Cause I have some clients who we work with and help develop this process for them. And they put the team in place to where I haven't spoken with them in six months and it's still, and it's still absolutely pressing, but that's because they got a great offer that converts that's evergreen, right? So it's not something that's going on, but it's not built on some fad or something. That's going to fade out. They're actually serving in me. And, uh, they have a sales team that understands the product that really gets it. And there's a, uh, ongoing need for this in the marketplace. So they serve a big need. Um, they're able to actually convert really well and they got a sales team to back them up. So there are other moving pieces of components that you need to have in place or develop over time. And I agree, it doesn't happen overnight with that being said, uh, once those, once those pieces are in place is, is very, very scalable and can provide a lot of freedom. But I agree, you know, most people they don't want to put in at the time and effort that it takes to, to really make it work. And, you know, and that's what I bring us in, right. Because we can really shortcut that learning curve and really guide and direct people so that we don't, I will say,
Sam Bell (23:43):
I will say that there is no
Sam Bell (23:46):
Better funnel than a webinar in terms of an indoctrinating, an audience, right. Somebody listening to your entire story and value proposition for 60 minutes is just the, you know, it beats everything else that exists out there, right? The people that come on the back of that thing and the people that do buy, know everything, your company, your brand, your, your business is all about, right. Like people that buy books, uh, you know, they forget that they bought a book, right? Like it's, it's nine bucks. It's 12 bucks, 20 bucks, you know, I don't even know like probably, well, as one, 1% of people probably actually read books. So yeah, like it pays for ads, but I will say, yes, there's a lot more work in webinars, but people are definitely more indoctrinated. All right. Let's dive into this rich ad, man. I want to know what's working now. Let's let's, let's, uh, uh, we've had enough banter webinars. Uh, let's dive into this rich ed, take it away. Dylan. Let's let's what do we got?
Dylan Carpenter Speaker 3 (24:53):
Yeah, Sam. So we have some super long copy here. I want to say it's very residential assistant
Sam Bell (24:59):
Living focused here, but you know, what's
Dylan Carpenter Speaker 3 (25:03):
The story behind this? There's this kind of,
Sam Bell (25:05):
You know, the one hit wonder ad, or is it something you kind of use across, you know, multiple audiences? Um, I'm super curious here, cause it's very, you know, wall street oriented, but everybody, so this particular ad is for client. They, they are, uh, they specialize in the residential assisted living facility, a space and they educate people on how to get started in that business. So they have a, a coaching model where, and they also have a digital product model as well, but they have a coaching model where essentially they bring people in and they walk them through the entire process of how to get their business started. And it's obviously some very involved process, you know, when you're talking about, you know, there's a lot of people that teach real estate, this PR this is a niche within the real estate niche itself that, uh, that requires a very, a certain level of sophistication if you will.
Sam Bell (25:56):
Right. Because when you're talking about residential assisted living, then there are, there are, um, certain laws that come into place. There are certain policies and things that you need to understand to properly navigate that and be successful. And that's really what they hope people do. And they're the, they are the go-to people in that space, right? So the particular, the ad that, um, that you're looking at, uh, we, we positioned it because one of the things that I like to, I like to think of from the, from the perspective of the prospect is if we can write a piece of copy that they're immediately gonna recognize. So, you know, the RAs system, reticular activator system, something that triggers that. So because the Wolf of wall street was such a big, a big movie, and we kind of took that angle with that particular ad and talked about, talked about it kind of made a comparison, uh, between that and the opportunity that exists in the residential assisted living facility.
Sam Bell (27:01):
And that kind of brought people into the story to start the journey, because I think one of the biggest challenges and mistakes a lot of people make is that they're trying to sell people on the product, on the service in the ad. And that is not what the ad is designed for. That ad is simply meant to get people, to take the next step in the process. So we want it to invoke curiosity. We want it to, uh, invoke familiarity. So that way people will want to click through and go to the next step, which would be to obviously register for the webinar itself. So that particular piece of copy was extremely effective in taking someone from Facebook, get them to register and start that process and start that journey. Um, and to answer your question, we write ads similar to that across, across the board, right?
Sam Bell (27:53):
The Wolf of wall street was just one particular angle. We'll come up with a bunch of different angles. We'll use fact-based angles, we'll use, you know, certain data points, um, you know, as it relates to what's happening in society, talking to that particular niche, we're also very, we also really understand who that audience is and what motivates and drives them. So, you know, being able to talk to not only, um, the pain points, but the wants, needs, and desires of that audience and incorporate that into the ad copy to elicit a visceral response, if you will, to really compel them to want to know and learn more about exactly what this is, how this works, how this works and how they can be involved. Um, and the process is the same, the same thing that I walked you through. And they went, they registered for a webinar. They attended the automated webinar. They scheduled a call on the call. They were presented with the opportunity to attend a training, uh, which they paid for. And then all of the training, uh, that they paid for. Then they were upsold into the backend coaching training program for those people who wanted to take their business to the next step. And you can see that within a 30 day period, it was a very small Aspen. Um, but it generated, you know, a decent amount of applications that resulted in think it was like a $17,000, 17,000 return.
Dylan Carpenter Speaker 3 (29:17):
I mentioned, you got to share that fricking or ATAR next. Now, when you showed me that Rose, I was like, Oh man, this is no joke.
Sam Bell (29:24):
Yeah, it is crazy. And you know, which brings me to one of my next point is that, you know, being able to properly track your data and attribute and identify, you know, which ads are responsible or generate at generating that revenue was super. So, so, um, and, but because we're able to do that where it can be very efficient, um, with our, with our Aspen now are these pretty immediate sales are taken a week or two out. I see you got it from July to August. Is it case by case there? No. So, so generally the cell cycle was definitely a little bit longer on this simply because of the sequence they go through because they first have to book a call. Um, so generally within that, from the time they attend the webinar, they'll schedule a call. So they'll have that call within, uh, five days cause they can't schedule any more than five days out.
Sam Bell (30:14):
Uh, and there's a, an event that runs so on their call, that's when they will have the opportunity to make their first purchase. So within five days we're actually generating a cell, right. But that's not the, the big ticket. Right. You know, that first cell is only like 1997, right. But can compare to the cost to acquire or to have that phone consultation we're already in profitability. And then the actual training happens on a monthly basis, right? So every month there's a big influx of backend sales that come from those people who attend. So the first sale happens within the first five days. And that basically covers all the aspects. And then essentially all the big ticket sales happened at, uh, at the 30 day point. And that's all profit, Ooh, super juicy there. She does 1794 times, or I'll as I'm in. Wouldn't that be nice to get, you know, for everybody
Sam Bell (31:14):
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Sam Bell (32:36):
We'll yeah. So we could the next minute or so diving into this poor ad, um,
Sam Bell (32:44):
Let's do it. Let's do it. I'm ready.
Sam Bell (32:47):
I got your email replied to it with a very terrible ad. That's actually running.
Sam Bell (32:54):
Sam Bell (32:55):
You know, a picture tells a thousand words, you know, I want to get your first thoughts on this terrible app.
Sam Bell (33:00):
Sam Bell (33:06):
Um, the image is not bad. The issue is the fact that it has, it has the shape. It actually says Shutterstock in, uh, in the text copy with the number in JPEG. So there's, there's literally no convict. There's no context. There's literally no context as to what this is. Other than somebody on the backhoe digging a hole in the ground. I don't think I would have any idea what they do unless the page name was not valued view landscapes and their call to action for legs. I mean the big red, you know, excavator makes it a little bit easy to pop, but man, they got the water, you know, believe it or not. The image is actually decent if there was some context around it. Right. And like you said, there's no call to action. There's no phone number. What else? What am I supposed to do? Just look at it. Is it maybe just a branding play? Hey, it may be those four likes the friends, family, and relatives there.
Sam Bell (34:15):
Oh my gosh. I want to say, I want to, I want to get right into it, man. I, I think that, uh, one of the financial principles I want to hit you with out of the gate and get your thoughts on is really understanding payback period. Because I think with these high ticket programs, these webinars, these, these, these sales call funnels, you end up dealing with a longer payback than usual. And this was a big inspiration, but behind, uh, ad capital and ad card, right. Which was like me trying to solve this problem for years of like, how do you know, how do, how do you not have like a three or four month float, right. Of dropping 50 grand or a hundred grand a month and needing whatever 200, 400 grand of operating capital just to carry over to breakeven. But to like that pushed me literally so hard into finance.
Sam Bell (35:10):
I'm like, dude, maybe I just need to like provide people with funding to solve this issue. Um, but talk to me, how does this come up in, in your client conversations? Like do, do clients ever call you like worried late at night of like, Hey man, like we've got like, we've got a couple hundred grand out, like waiting for it to come back in. And like, if, if you want to scale, that's where it really gets tricky. Right? That's I think a lot of these funnels hang around $50,000 a month. And I don't think you see a ton of them scale to six figures because if, if your payback period is like three months, right, you got 150 grand and 50 came on spend, if you want to go by like three X next year, you need 450 grand of operating capital and you'll go to three X the next year. It's 1.3 ish million. And I think a lot of people in this space, like their lifestyle too much to commit,
Sam Bell (36:13):
I might help clear, clear up some misconceptions for you because that is absolutely not the case in this space when done properly. The first thing and my goal, most of my clients, when they come to me
Sam Bell (36:25):
Caveat, Asterik when done properly,
Sam Bell (36:28):
Properly. Exactly. Very
Sam Bell (36:31):
Underline highlight, highlight bold. Yeah.
Sam Bell (36:37):
So, um, a lot of times, you know, our first goal is to get our, get our clients. If they're not already doing six figures a month, that's our very first goal to get them to six figures a month. Um, and we have some clients that are doing six figures a month. And our, our goal is to, is to triple that, uh, within the first 60 days. So the caveat is either they have data and approve an offer or they don't have data and improvement offer. Okay. If, if, if you come into this game and you don't have data, you don't have a proven offer 100%. It will probably take you 60 to 90 days to get that offer dollar debt. With that being said, it does not. It's not, it doesn't require that level of Aspen to get it dialed in. You can literally probably spend $10,000 a month for the first 60 days and get your offer dialed to, you know, if you're actively working at it.
Sam Bell (37:29):
Right. And you actually have someone to work with you to give you feedback. So that way you can continually optimize. And that's really one of the benefits I believe from working with an experienced agency that has done this. And it kind of has an idea insight because that's something you really don't get, unless you just have that experience. Like, I don't care if you took a thousand courses, unless you've been doing this for 10 plus years, then you know, you have data to support what works, what doesn't work, what type of, you know, what type of webinars, the positioning, how you want to structure it. Right? So that's the first thing. Now, if you have data, meaning that you have customers already that have purchased this particular offer, you have a webinar that converts, then it's just a matter of putting together the proper funnel structure and ad strategy to maximize that.
Sam Bell (38:26):
So most of our clients who come to us who are already at six figures is very easy to, to almost double or triple what they're doing. And the reason is easy. And I say easy, um, with the fact that we have insights is because the biggest problem that I see when people are trying to scale up is that they are, they don't they're depending on Facebook or Google, exclusively for their data, meaning that they're making decisions for how to optimize and allocate their ad budgets or their webinar exclusively on a pixel data, or maybe some UTI or maybe some UTM tracking. Right. And that is a huge, huge challenge in a, in a, in a really, a big challenge in the industry. And I think that unless you have a proper attribution model, you're always going to struggle and you're always right. Run into challenges.
Sam Bell (39:31):
Fortunately, we utilize tools, um, primarily hieros is our, our tool of choice to do proper data attribution. So that's one of the first things we implement when we start working with our clients, because now we get this really seat because, and I'll give you a perfect example. I started working with a client about a month ago and they're doing well, they're doing probably around, you know, 90 to a hundred thousand dollars. It was a month. Um, but they have organic sales coming in. They got Facebook, you know, sales coming in and they're looking at all their Facebook sales. They were like, well, yeah, well, you know, we think our, we think it's about half and half, right? We've we think, you know, out of those 90,000, you know, $45,000 of that revenue is coming from Facebook and, you know, the others like organic, I'm like, okay, well, let's see.
Sam Bell (40:14):
Right? Cause they had no way to really identify and track that. So we implemented, uh, we, we implemented AI print, print tracking, and we just monitored it. We monitor it for 30 days. We took some of their best performing audiences, best performing campaigns and created our own variations based on our proprietary campaign structure. And then we started launching and watching and lo and behold, we find out it was the complete opposite. Only 20% of their revenue was coming from Facebook ads. And 80% was coming from organic and affiliate traffic. Right. They didn't, they couldn't see that before. And then when I, when I showed this to them, I said, okay, now, now that we know this, here's what, here's, this, here's how we can adjust, adjust this. So that way we can increase the revenue on the Facebook ad side. And, and we're on track right now to double, to double their revenue on the Facebook side and going into probably I'll probably say the next 30 days, we'll be able to triple it up only because now I can tell them and pinpoint exactly which campaigns, which ads are producing a revenue and we're allocating our budget to those things that are best performing.
Sam Bell (41:29):
So it makes it a lot easier when you actually can see, right? Because most people are, are driving blind and they're making decisions that they think are data-driven decisions, but is, you know, bad data. So they're making decisions on bad data. So it doesn't, you don't necessarily have to extend and spin a lot of money. If you know where to spend what to test, and you actually are able to properly track. When you can do that, you have minimal risks. You can minimize your risk and increase the upside. Now, in terms of the, in terms of how long it takes for them to recoup an investment, if the offer's already performing, then we're going out of the gate. If the offer does not, if the offer does not perform, and let's say we start from square one, it may take us 60, 90 days, but we start with a small budget, you know, 10 grand a month.
Sam Bell (42:24):
And because they're generally selling a five to $10,000 offer, we don't have to make a lot of sales to recoup that investment. And that's the beauty of high ticket when done properly. Oh my gosh. He just released a framework of how to kill it, bro. Congrats. I love it, man. You've been amazing guests. Thank you so much for like bantering with me on our different experiences about webinar funnels, attribution analytics do do, do solve a lot of those challenges. And I think are incredibly important for these, for these funnels that take longer to, uh, to convert those leads into clients. But, uh, tell everybody a little bit about what you're up to and how they can get in touch. Yeah, man. Um, so, you know, I'm 100% focused on, you know, agency improving, you know, optimizing, you know, our internal processes. So that way we can serve our clients, uh, the best way to get to me is just head over to Sam bell, marketing.com, ton of resources. Uh, got some blog articles, have some, um, some freebies on there. So if you want to, you know, learn more about, you know, tracking and ad copy, uh, there's a lot of great content I have on the site there.
Sam Bell (43:38):
I love it. Thanks so much, Sam, thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor dad.com/podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me firstname.lastname@example.org. Show me you left a review and I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed.com to leave a review that a rich ed for at.com/review. Thanks again.
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Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR