Master Copywriter Dane Dives into how he crafts copy that converts like CRAZY

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Dane Maxwell


Dane Maxwell


Head Honcho

The Foundation
Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsLive on SpotifyLive on Youtube

Head Honcho at The Foundation and master copywriter who helps partners surrender their ego.

Episode Summary


  • How to craft copy and headlines that convert like crazy in paid ads.
  • Why the free + shipping model just DOES NOT work.
  • Getting clients to surrender their ego for the good of the business.




Dane (00:00):

You know, like you can take this in many different directions, but then when you come in, you, you, you, you wrap a store as a copywriter. You build tension with love. Like you're, you're, you're like, cause if I just gave the word right away. Oh, the most important word, by the way, the most important word is predictability. Predicting revenue, predicting profit, predicting product success. Before you build it, predicting your hires, predict prediction, being able to predict. And, um, cause if you could predict a product success before you start, then what's the, then you can, it's a very, very powerful word. And software is, is one of the most predictable sources of revenue online. And that's why all these entrepreneurs are moving to software. Then I sold a software software.

Intro (00:46):


Zach (00:47):

You're listening to the rich add poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with core ads. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the rich ed port podcast is your host, Zach Johnson. I'm with the one and only Dylan Carpenter. You excited Dylan for today's guests. Hell so they, yeah, let's do it, man. Love it. Today's guest is a, it's one of the weirdest most free spirit marketers out there, but the reason why I wanted to have him on the show is I think he's got, uh, an amazing background and a blend in music as well as in, uh, an offering a book, but also I think most known for, uh, his, um, how many SAS companies this guy has helped get off the ground.

Zach (01:55):

He's probably one of the best guys. I know when it comes to going from zero to one, uh, with as little as cash as, as possible, as easily and quickly as possible as well. Something I just absolutely suck at. So I admire, um, today's guest, but he's the founder co-founder of the foundation. He's the creator of the start from zero and author of the start from zero, uh, book and podcast. And uh, I think he got a couple other SAS businesses under, under there as well. Um, and he's done over eight figures in sales online and I don't think I could talk them up even more, but he's also become a pretty good friend. And uh, we, we get to have a chance every week remotely. He's also a pretty mellow dad as well. So Dane Maxwell, man, welcome to the show.

Dane (02:50):

I said having a father, being a father was a good thing for me, cause I used to be too rough around the edges for you bring the rough parts back, bro them back on this podcast.

Zach (03:01):

Yeah. And it, you, you, uh, you, your, your lady is really done amazing things for you. I feel like we can have like a real conversation and um, and it's going to go places. Uh that's cool, man. Well, tell everybody what you're up to these days, uh, for those things that, that, uh, you know, our audiences, mainly agencies and advertisers, they might not be like SAS or like, you know, startup startup entrepreneurs that you're mostly known around in those circles, but yeah. Give her a pretty

Dane (03:32):

Speed. Well, I'll tell you what I do. And I also want to mention is more important as how I'm doing it, of course, because you know, you could say, Oh, Rockefeller, what how'd Rockefeller get rich? Or he got rich in oil. That's not how he got rich. There was a lot of people in oil that never got rich and oil Rockefeller got rich because of how he went about it. And if you look at how he went about it, it's mind blowing. It's like, Holy crap, the stuff that he did the house so much more fascinating than the what. So, I mean, I can tell you the three what's I'm doing, but the house is way, way cooler. And the Watts are pretty cool too, because I'm pursuing my highest passion and pretty much all, all facilities in business. And so I'm making my dream virtual reality video game and it's fricking awesome.

Dane (04:12):

Um, and then I'm building two SAS businesses, which are all centered around really deeply troubling problems that people experience that when they find this platform, their nervous system will kind of open and be like, thank God, you know, this exists. Um, and, and, but the, how I'm going about it is it was just so much joy and so connected to like a deeper purpose and a deeper sense of meaning with it all. And that's all real. So it's all really exciting. Um, and then I've got a mentoring group, uh, a group of 150 entrepreneurs, uh, that I mentor all the time. And those are really, those are really, that's a really fun group if anybody's interested in that, that's we do have a couple of spots open in the one 50 in 150 right now. But yeah, that's the,

Zach (04:55):

What do you call that group by the way? Is that just gonna be like, um, life support group or like, what is that called? I feel like I should probably pay you money for this group giving, well, I,

Dane (05:08):

I would pay money to be a part of the group, you know? Um, but the, the group itself is it's called starters, but starters is a philosophy. It's a belief system that you can install within your psyche that allows you to live as a surrendered entrepreneur. So, you know, when customers ask you for things and you're like, ah, God, don't ask me for that customer. You know, ah, don't do that. You like surrender past that. And then you give that customer, the thing they're asking for, and then your bank account shows the results of that. Um, but you don't get rich and entrepreneurship quickly until you surrender. Um, and when you surrender to what people are asking for, you surrender to what people really want. And that process of surrender is very difficult because you know, it's like, you know, I'm, I'm mentoring a student right now. He generated 45 grand in sales for a furniture

Dane (05:58):

Liquidators for Facebook ads, 28 to one conversion, 28 for two 20 to one ROI. And then the next month he did a seven to one ROI, seven to one ROI and the guy quit. Yeah. I don't like this. I'm like, and so, you know, that's triggering, right? Cause you're like, what in the mother of all, are you thinking seven to one ROI? And that agency owners are like, Oh, okay. I'll take three to one, four to one, five, seven, 28 to one. And, and so I was like, well, so first you go punch a few pillows. Right? You get angry. Like what the ex, Oh, the guy wants you to feed him pizza in bed. Okay. But he wants you to do, you made him pee and he's like, no, can you bring it over and feed it to me while I'm in bed? And so, um, Isaac, so after you Pat processed anger, you'd then get curious and surrender to surrender it entrepreneurs.

Dane (06:43):

Very curious. First of course, you get triggered. You're like, God it. Why is the person asking for this? And then you surrender and you say, okay, well curious, what ROI would you need to want to keep doing? This is seven to one is not good enough. What is your good enough number? Um, and then you actually get curious, you say, okay, so tell me about that. And then like, do you have any idea what industry averages are? Um, can you tell me how much money you have in the bank right now? Um, because that could be multiplied times seven, but like, you know, there's a lot of anger. Cause like you generate all these guys like, Oh, I've got to call these leads. I don't want to do this. These leads. And I'm like, well, he's telling you what he wants. He wants customers on a silver platter.

Dane (07:28):

So you have a price plan. Well, we have a price plan for leads, but we also have a, if you don't want to do this majority of the work, we also have a price and the whole system and a methodology that will handle leads for you. It's just a greater price because we're getting you closer to a result. So you can choose this. If you want, you don't have to leave. We just talk about adding that. So, you know, when agencies or when agencies get that, that dreaded like, Oh, have I have to deal with these leads? And the agency's like, well, God, okay, so you want pizza in bed, you know? Um, and then you, but you listen and you surrender and you say, okay, you really do want this. And you get over your crap. And that takes awhile. And I got a buddy of mine.

Dane (08:03):

He's, he's approaching 10 grand a day online within the info product space in the relationship space. And when you ask him how he did it, well, he, I taught him quite a bit of stuff that I think really helped him. But he, uh, he said, I finally just surrendered, like a like, cause like he's like, so ladies, what do you want to know? For course wise? And they would say, and he's like, no, you shouldn't want that. No, you shouldn't want that. And finally he gave them what they wanted and he just sells off the author acts every day. So starters as a philosophy of recognizing the ego, surrendering, listening, and then building something from that surrendered space. So like the people ask they're like, how do you get to the top of the mountain? Like we don't climb mountains. I walk to valleys with buckets of water and I pour the bucket of water down the Valley.

Dane (08:51):

And then wherever that water goes, I follow along the stream and build my cities and cities and villages along the stream. But that's a way of life living. That's a way of life. So I'm not like God getting to the top of that mountain, but water is heavy. You had to carry it to the Valley. You got to find the Valley first place. And then you got to pour it down. And then what I mean, that's, it's diff it's work, but it's different work. But I tell you what it's, it's a, it's a whole heck of a lot better than trying to be some genius, creative, that something that like everybody just loves. And now we're significant in the world because we came up with this idea that everybody appreciates and the same comes with the no ads, good ads and rich ads and poor ads, as you'd say, because when I did songwriting, as much as you want every song to be a hit, you just gotta write a lot of songs and some hit and some don't and the ones you think hit you record the ones that are easy to sing.

Zach (09:42):

It's really weird. It's really weird.

Dane (09:43):

There's like a three-phase process in songwriting. So like you write a song a gosh. Awesome. I feel so great about it. Then you get into record it and you're like, ah, this isn't really going very well during the recording. Then there's songs you hate that you're writing, but you like, somehow you're eating it out. Then you go into the studio. You're like, Oh, this is a lot better.

Zach (10:00):

And like

Dane (10:02):

The one you write five songs to maybe have one that's worth listening to. So do you, do you want to have the patience of writing five songs? That's why you want to love what you're doing with songwriting. But I think if the ads to you guys know that you're gonna write 10 ads to find your unit.

Zach (10:17):

Yeah. I also feel like you, well, there's, there's so many golden nuggets there that you just dropped down. I want to highlight and like to rewind and play the back for a couple of people because one year and amazing copywriter. And I think he just grave, like every agency that's listening to this podcast, a great headline, which is how much is in your bank account. Do you want seven X more next month? That's like, if you're in your whole value, prop is row as a that's what was the headline? How much is their bank account? And do you want seven X more next month?

Zach (10:57):

And that came from like picturing myself on the phone with a human. Yeah. The other thing I want to highlight here is your, the process of surrendering. This is something that I've been learning from you in the last couple of weeks, because like in our first wait, we were catching up a, a few weeks ago and I was like, Hey, Dan, I got to do all this stuff. And you're like, cool, man, why don't you just take like a breather for a hot minute? Like let's smell out. And, um, and you, you, it basically, it was teaching me this process of like, like getting centered first, taking a breather or relaxing. What, what is joy? What is like the most fulfilling? And then what is my marketing strategy from there? And that, um, was a difficult place for me to do before. Just kind of like meditating out for a minute and what proceeded to happen the very next week was personally a really big breakthrough for us with ad card.

Zach (12:01):

Was I finally just shut up for a minute about like how excited I was about ad card. And it was great. Like, people were excited about it, but there's also people that like, weren't excited about it. They're like, ah, I've got my Amex like, cool. And then there was conversations that were like, Hey, could you just like put my logo on the card? And I'm like, but, but, but, but, but, but like, is that all you want? And, and I spent like a week kind of like, over-complicating it for, for, for a second. And then kinda came back, had another conversation with Dane. We'd like chilled out for a little session. And then like the next week I just was like, Oh, we have this new offer. It's called a co-brand double add card as for agencies that want to put their logos on and like just shut up.

Zach (12:54):

Right. Like just, and they're like, Oh, that's cool. Like Cara, anything else? And, uh, and so this was like not an offer that we had pre catching up with you Dan, like a few weeks ago. So I, if anything, I'm just like giving you, you know, a, a glowing review here of like your process that, um, I finally surrendered to after, uh, years of knowing so many people that have gone through your stuff. I don't think I've ever been like a S a student or like gone through anything there as much as I think we've just been friends. And, um, so anyways, we're around the edges, bro. It's cool. So what I want to dive into, you know, as we talk about like this rich ad segment is, I guess I just want to say a real quick, like, ah, God people wonder how Sam Owens blew up and I mentored him. Yeah. Uh, and

Dane (13:56):

Like, he came to me at 22 and he couldn't even afford,

Zach (13:59):

So he borrowed his girlfriend's credit card to pay for mentorship. And

Dane (14:03):

One of the he's one of the few students he's super bright. Like you even helped innovate the program. Wow.

Zach (14:08):

Well, I was teaching him super smart. So I just got lucky enough to mentor him. And

Dane (14:13):

I just deep, like he deeply installed everything. I said, I even got him on video and I should play the video sometime. But he said, I've downloaded your brain. He actually said, he actually said, in Sam fashion, I stole your money.

Zach (14:26):

Instead of there's how many layers behind that onion. Right. And he's like, I stole your mind and I'm not going to give it back and I'm going to supercharge it. Uh, awesome, man. I'm weirded out right now, but also happy for you. Well, it's, you

Dane (14:46):

Know, it's neither here nor there it's like, everyone does what

Zach (14:48):

They want with what I show them. But, but say like,

Dane (14:52):

Just in terms of the results that are possible with Sam, um, he looked at what the problem was and people needed fast cash. And like a lot of people hear that they're like, I need fast cash. Or like, yeah, whenever we get out of here and Sam heard that and he's like, Oh, you need fast cash. Okay. Well we'll just teach you consulting. Cause that's fast cash. Like he surrendered and listened any applied a hundred percent of the stuff. And like I tell him a book to read and he not only read that book, but he read all the recommendations at the end of the book, he'd highlight his favorite parts. He type up the highlights. He print out the highlights. He reread the highlights until all the patterns were installed. The process for how Sam came to be is much different than, Oh, what? He just does consulting. But I guess it's just, I don't know. I don't often really talk about him that much, but he's so successful now that it gives me so much credibility to be like, yeah, I taught that kid a few things and now, now I can learn from him.

Zach (15:51):

Oh man.

Dane (15:52):

A lot of my students are actually more successful than me. Like I've got quite a few students that are leaders of their different respective industries. Um, and it's, it's really cool. I've been thinking about it. Like, I wouldn't say I'm like, particularly like strictly religious, but I really do admire Jesus for like what he stood for and things. And he he's quoted in like the Bible. He has a quote Bible verses says greater things than me. You will do. And I'm thinking about this. I'm like, that is such a bad-ass thing to say because there are parts of me. That's like, I'm the best everybody. I'm the best. It's me. That's the best. Nobody else can be the best. Like there's a part of my mind. That's thinking this. I think, I think everybody's thinking this and some are in some regard, maybe not, maybe people just hold fully healed and they're just in their full, humble self, but like Jesus comes along and he's already, like, it was reported that you could feel Jesus is aura from two miles away.

Dane (16:45):

Like if you're not around, like you could feel like that's how much peace was in that guy system. And, and um, whether you believe you lived or not like, um, so those, those that do believe he lived in like those, those, these, these things, but like that's how powerful he was. And, and he was also like, yeah, greater things than me. You will do. I was like, I just so admire that. So I see that in a lot of my students, they're doing much greater things than I am in their own respective fields. Like I'm not number one in any field right now. And I kind of like the anonymity beyond. Um, so yeah,

Zach (17:20):

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well I think, I mean, it's also nice. Not like to be put in a box, right? Like, uh, cause then you have to like reinvent yourself when you learn something new. And uh, I, I can understand that. Well, let's break down like this process of, of how you think somebody should go about creating a rich ad campaign. Right. And we probably, we're not gonna get through all of them, but I think if you just touch on like a couple that got to type into,

Dane (17:51):

And then I would love to flip that and really kind of dive into this

Speaker 5 (17:56):

We're at peace where it's kind of like, Hey, here's some things like not to do.

Dane (18:00):

I'm ready to go. I'm ready.

Speaker 5 (18:05):

So you want to use

Dane (18:07):

Is your unconscious fear advantage. And so if your unconscious is in a state of state of anxiety or stress, or you're like subtly trying to prove yourself in some way, um, your mind will be like a heat seeking missile for like ideas that seem good, but are actually relatively mediocre to the genius that could come through. If your, if your mind was like really aligned and for a lot of folks that are in the business world, they run on and we run on such a state of like internal anxiety. But it's so normalized that to slow down is like the, but if you can stay in that E for like five minutes, your, your brain, like five minutes, usually you're like, Whoa. Um, and then you gave it, you kind of get to this really still place. And from that place, you, you start using your unconscious for really good things.

Dane (18:58):

And so you start asking your unconscious, like, how can I write something that's never been seen before? You know, how can I put together a string of sentences that just rivets and rocks people in their place? And then there's no clinging, there's no grasping. It's kind of like, how can I do something that's never been seen before? And so we were thinking about this and we were writing a, and we wrote a headline that like, kind of went viral. It went viral. Um, and then like marketers would swipe it for other industries. And, but it, it came about because I was in a discussion with a partner I had at the time, Andy [inaudible], who's a great partner. And, and we were talking back and forth and it was right at the point where your brain is like, this I'm done. And then you stay a little longer.

Dane (19:49):

And then, um, then the headline kind of comes, but the unconscious missile is how can I create something that's never been seen before? And it's not to validate your own significance. It's not like, Oh yeah, no, it's it's to capture attention. So you can love people in a way they haven't been loved before. So they feel home when they found you. And in that place of home, you can carry them into a life that they have kind of like forgotten in their mind, but secretly wished existed. And I think business is ultimately about loving people. And when you love people, that's when you listen to them and you actually surrender because their refusal to listen in a refusal to surrender is a refusal to love, you know? And so you're like crap, right? You're like, Oh God. So if you sit in the person that you're writing a headline towards and you listen to them and you love them. And you're like, you know what? The thing they've been asking for this is all the time. But I see

Dane (20:48):

This headline everywhere, but everybody's talking about this, but I don't want to be like this person over here. I've got, I've got a student in the starters program. Um, and he has like, he's like, well, I've been trying to do all these things, but, um, everybody keeps asking me for this thing that I've got working over here. And I'm like, well, what's the thing you got working over here. He's like, well, I kind of devised a thing where I can get a hundred percent return on the stock market every nine weeks.

Dane (21:14):

Okay. Problem there.

Dane (21:20):

So gimmicky and like all this crap, like, it just doesn't sound true. I'm like, okay, great. How to get a hundred percent returns in the stock market every nine months. You know, I know this might sound gimmicky. And to me, it actually does. So I've hesitated to run this headline for a really long time. But the truth is it's been happening year after year, over and over for me and my friends and family. And here are the screenshots too. Now I almost didn't put this out in the world because I just didn't want to be laughed at, but it is truly this remarkable. And if you give me a chance to show you, I'll show you how you can do the same too. And now, you know, you've got a whole, like, you're like man, and that's, and that's all written from love. You're like, you're, you're, you're, you're asking them to believe this thing.

Dane (21:58):

And then you're just speaking with honesty, like you're going right to the cut. So in terms of the headline that we did that got shared and ripped off, and you could still use many, you guys could all go use this. Um, but you don't want to use it without love because if your intention isn't love, you'll actually cut the amount of profit you can make drastically. Because if your intention is subtly in any way, how do we manipulate attention to get this, this or this? When you love people, you'll actually attract the customers that want to be there. And you can actually do like similar things, like with love that that are used currently, like, you know, scarcity and urgency and these kinds of triggers, but the headline was do you know, the most important word in business?

Dane (22:41):

And so you

Dane (22:41):

Come to a page and you're like, do you know the most important word in business? And you're like, Oh, well, what is, okay, so you click play on the video and it's like, Hey, you know, the most important word in business. Well, I spent six months teaching a group of entrepreneurs, this word. Now they're doing very, very well for themselves. Now, if you're trying to guess the word, the word isn't freedom, it isn't persistence. It doesn't desire. It doesn't hustle. And it isn't any like woo feel good words. It's actually very real, very practical, very concrete. Now, before I tell you what the word is, let me show you a three of the most respected entrepreneurs in the world are using this word to blow up their businesses. Right now, let's look at Tim Ferris. Now Tim wrote the four hour workweek and what he said to do.

Dane (23:19):

And he said, you should start an information business. But if you actually look at Tim's profile, you'll see what he's actually doing with his money is investing in software companies, all because of this one word, let's go look at Jason fried. One of the most respected software entrepreneurs online used to start a design company. And he said, then he left design and started a company called base camp. All because of one of this all because of this one word. Now let's go look at Marc Andreessen. This dude is a billionaire. He's an advisor to companies, Facebook. He's the guy who started Netscape. And, uh, he started a venture capital company to invest in software all because of this one word. Have you figured out the word yet? So now everything I've done, there can be modeled and swiped for any industry. So what you do is do you know the most important word you can do, you know, Dylan, I'm over here.

Dane (24:17):

I mean, sort of, um, but so you say, do you know the most important word because they do, you know, the most dangerous word, you know, most significant word, do you know the most risky word? Do you know the most, um, like overused word? You know, like you can take this in many different directions, but then when you come in, you, you, you, you wrap a story as a copywriter. You build tension with love. Like you're, you're, you're like, cause if I just gave the word right away. Oh, the most important word, by the way, the most important word is predictability. Predicting revenue, predicting profit, predicting product success. Before you build it, predicting your hires, predict prediction, being able to predict. And, um, cause if you could predict a product success before you start, then what's the, then you can, it's a very, very powerful word.

Dane (25:01):

And software is the, is one of the most predictable sources of revenue online. And that's why all these entrepreneurs are moving to software. Then I sold a software software course. Um, and so, but the, if you look at it, so you say, do you the most important word? Um, I spent six months teaching people this word now, before I now. And if you're trying to guess the word, uh, it's not this. And then by the way, let's look at what, how really respected people are treating this word, whether they know it or not. And then I give the word that's um, it's, it's classic. It's classic coffee. Um, I remember this video. What's the word? And it did. I, I remember, um, gosh, this is, this is back in the day, but I, that definitely got like shared quite a bit. And um, do you guys spend time on it to, Oh yeah. That, that that's not an accident that wasn't just like,

Speaker 6 (25:51):

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Dane (27:09):

Check it So talk about poor. I mean like what, what, what should we like, I'll not do like what the flip the script here, Diana of like, all right, you just gave us like a, literally a template, a swipe file for an ad. That's awesome. Uh, what talk to us about, um, something that's for sure. Thanks. Well, I think the, the context is, is what creates four ads, not the actual ad itself. Like, um, well it's a combination, right? You have the media and you get the market, you get the messaging, right? So, you know, like the media, miss Facebook or YouTube or Snapchat or direct mail, the market is this. And then the message is this. And if, and if you get all three of those right research, it's pretty difficult to screw up, but most people don't do the work for those three things, myself included. Sometimes I'll just go, yeah, I don't want to do this. And so I write an ad and I'll lose money. And the vast majority of the ads that I've run, they all worked all of them.

Dane (28:20):

Cause I'm a biggest bad-ass I got a name as cool as carpenter. And I just built this house in my bare hands, not a scratch, you know, no poor ads are like so embarrassing. You know, I blocked them out of my mind. Um, they're usually just kind of vague and confusing and Oh, well, I mean, you mentioned like, I try to, in terms of like a campaign, like I tried running a free plus shipping campaign for my book and I stopped at immediately. Cause I just, I didn't like it. And intuitively intuitively, like, I just was like, this isn't gonna work. Like, you know, like three book, well it's not as 10 bucks. Um, and then like, Oh, buy this upgrade. Oh, this upgrade all this upgrade. And I was like, I'm going to try it. So I did that. I had like a 120 people buy the book and like maybe 15 people take the upsells because there was no trust. And the upsells were targeted. They were like, really good. It's like, Hey, start from zero, buy this book, Hey, watch eight entrepreneurs get their very first sales online. Like super cool. Or like at like the next one is like, yo, take it to the next level and start a business and scale it to one sale a day. You know, the next one is like, get hand, get your held for a year, implementing the book. like I was, I was just like, yeah, I hate

Dane (29:52):

Like every, every hour that I spend investing in information marketing,

Dane (30:03):

Whatever that word is, it's sucks. Every hour I spend investing in SAS, it's like angels sing from the heavens and like what's Russell Brunson doing what Laura Roeder started doing. What did clay Collins do with lead pages? What did all like some of the best marketers in the world, they all start building a SAS because some of the best marketers in the world are like 10 at a 10 skill, but they're working Intuit at 10 opportunities. And so, you know, like you want to match 10 out of 10 scale with 10 at a 10 opportunity. And like, I just can't, I've tried memberships information ad ad revenue sites and like software as a greatest satisfaction. We're just releasing a new software. And that's why I was actually late to this is because we were onboarding our first user and I was so engrossed in all the feedback, but like they're signing up, you know?

Dane (30:52):

And I show up to the call and I'm like, Oh God, are they gonna like me scared? Are they gonna think I'm greedy because I'm trying to sell them a software product and they get on. And they're like, dude, we're so excited about this. Thank you so much, man. Or like, w w can you tell me what as you're so excited, but like, well, content management system pain in the, we hate it. And we're so excited for how your products can help us solve this problem. And I was like, dude, this feels so good. Like, feel significant right now. This is amazing. And I'm not trying to convince someone to read a book, you know, and like implement a book. Um, so like there was all these, all these factors in the free plus shipping that, that made me hate it. The worst was that I had no control over who the shipper was.

Dane (31:30):

They seem lazy. He didn't, I don't know if they, if they ship books very often. So like I twinned off Amazon. And then I looked at my data and I saw that, like I had, like, I've had like maybe 7,000 people buy the book and I've had like 5,000 people visit the book bonus URL. And I like, that's a crazy amount of people that visit the book Warner's URL. I just need to get the book in people's hands, not make them wait two weeks for a book after they just went through an upsell hammering sequence.

Zach (32:00):

This is too painful, man. We gotta do. We gotta change topics thinking about all the money I've lost some bad funnels. So, uh, I want to talk about how Dane looks at, you know, some, your, some of your guiding principles for managing your finances. One of the things that I've noticed, um, from afar is how, um, cautious, strategic patient you are before you are considering getting into the business. Right? Well, like I've, I've seen a lot of you, your posts on or emails where you're just kind of putting out feelers about like different products, right? Whether it's like an analytics product or a video product, or like this, this and this, and you are completely disciplined in the sense that like, this is ID, throw it out. And if it air is not like the, the single, like, smallest, like iota of interests, uh, then you're like, just like, you'll just move on.

Zach (33:05):

Right. Or I should flip that script if there's not an overwhelming amount of interest that it makes it just as obvious. Right. And you've, you've been in, you've got a couple, you know, existing, successful products, you know, in market and you have this, you know, you got to start from zero going on. And there's a lot of entrepreneurs, including myself that are, just have this angst of like, I have to get this thing figured out. And it's very obvious that you're like patient and you surrender and you're not forcing it. You're not like trying to buy your way into it. Um, well, like how, how do you think about, you know, and don't, I just say, like, I don't say like, pre-selling here, let's not go down that rabbit hole. I'm just going to cut you off there. Cause I feel like there's, there's more behind like the, how, like, how you think about that. Uh,

Dane (34:03):

Cause I wasn't even thinking that word.

Zach (34:06):

If I hear another marketer, tell me I should pray. Uh, okay, go ahead. Do

Dane (34:13):

It. We can go for a bit if we don't.

Zach (34:15):

Yeah. Let's let's roll. Let's roll.

Dane (34:18):

I'm happy to have the space. So to understand the question is how you said, you asked, you asked about finances, but then you talked about the discipline with safely launching things. So I don't lose my financially.

Zach (34:31):

Yeah. That's where, that's where I want to take the conversation, but like, uh,

Dane (34:34):

I dunno to lose your financially. Um, so if we look at the definition of the word compulsion, right? Like, um, I'm mentoring a student right now and she gets on the call to talk to business owners and they start talking about problems. And then she can't listen because all she wants to do is solve their problems. And so she can't listen. She can't hear what they want. She can't hear what they want. She can't build what they want. She can't get anywhere. That compulsion is literally the linchpin seed of her lack of success with what she's trying to do. Success being defined by me, of course, like there's different than others, but I define success as a way of thinking that unencumbered, you pours your own dream. Success is a way of thinking that unencumbered you on the way to your own dream. So you watch someone say, I really want this. And then you watch them just paralyze themselves towards it. So success isn't like this outcome of a car and this and that success is a way of thought, the way of thinking that unencumbered yourself to your own dream. So if we look at the word compulsion,

Dane (35:38):

I gave her the language, I was like, next time you want to do that, just realize that you have an unconscious compulsion

Dane (35:43):

And to help people, even unconsciously

Dane (35:46):

Compulsion to button and help people, which a lot of us do. So she takes a breath and she whispers that language. I have an unconscious compulsion to help people. And she just kind of like, Oh, there's a lot of it. There's a, there's an engine behind that. And she keeps labeling it and noticing it, and then it starts to dissipate and then she can listen same with the unconscious compulsion for success, especially for men. So if we have an unconscious compulsion for

Dane (36:09):

Access or like me, I have, I have an unconscious compulsion or I've had an unconscious compulsion was like feeling significant. So it's like,

Dane (36:18):

I don't want to feel significant. So like, if I'm not checking that, then I will, over,

Dane (36:23):

Over grand dies a product that doesn't actually have interest and B, because

Dane (36:28):

I'm so blind to that. I'm blind to the facts because

Dane (36:30):

Of usually because of compulsion. So the first,

Dane (36:34):

The first thing I would ask you to look at as a business owner, as an agency owner is like, where are your compulsions? The strongest. And your compulsions are the strongest

Dane (36:43):

Where like, you really don't want to be doing something that you're doing or, you know,

Dane (36:47):

The slightest thing that you're being blindsided.

Dane (36:49):

So, um, in terms of like launching a, this is, so this is pretty trippy. Like, uh,

Dane (36:56):

Can you feel internally, like the desire you have for success?

Dane (37:01):

Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Dane (37:03):

So instead of actually acting on

Dane (37:05):

That desire, if you can actually sit with love and just feel the desire without moving you'll know,

Dane (37:14):

Notice and everybody on the podcast, like see if you can't feel the desire to be successful instead of being blindly, blindly forced forward by

Dane (37:22):

It. And when you start to feel

Dane (37:24):

The desire for success without moving, you start to notice, like you might start to get more agitated your body

Dane (37:30):

To get hot. And if you can stay there, that's

Dane (37:34):

Spiritual warrior stuff and you stay there as long, you might feel like your brain's going to get ripped out

Dane (37:37):

Your head, you know? Like you might feel like real for real, like, and so, um, then you stay there and you hold it. And then all of a sudden it'll kind of turn into a cool wave. And you're like, I think I just kind of want to do cool. And, but it's not a, I've got to do cool it's I kind of want to do cool. And then it's really centered. And so now, now, now we're now we're compulsion free. And so being compulsion free, now we go out in the markets and we just a little tap. We pour the water from the top of the Valley and we're tapping and we're like, we're looking over here. We're like, Oh, you know what? People what's, uh, what's like an example. Um, so

Dane (38:24):

I had an idea for like a realtor review website back in the day. It's like, it's a portfolio of, of reviews for realtors before like Google reviews and Trulia and Zillow. We're all doing reviews. I was the genius thought and

Dane (38:36):

Distribution system back in 2006. And so I was off, I was at the top of the Valley and I was looking over here at reviews and I had a design made for, it made like, you know, I had the whole design, I showed it to realtors and they're like, nah, no, we don't care about that. And I was like, whatever realtors you don't know. Okay. Well, um, what, what do you want? And they're like, I hate my contact database software. And I go in the water was literally going off to the right as I was staring off to the left and I pour the water and is it going contact database software? Um, and so I actually ended up building that and I, I failed at that one there that, that failed, um, and very quickly that failed because the top 10% of realtors run their agents or other agencies like a business.

Dane (39:30):

So they value content management software, the bottom 90%, when they say I hate content management software, what they're really saying is I hate being a business owner. I hate having to grow up. I hate having to use systems and I'm not gonna use anything no matter how hard you try, because I don't want systems. Um, and so I didn't realize that, but the bottom 90% just didn't they wanted the pizza in bed and they hadn't made the decision yet to grow up and do a fully, uh, like, you know, a fully autonomous business owner, which has systems and discipline and responsibility. So anyway, the top 10%, they were fine with their contact database software. They were, they were pretty fine with it. They like, so that's what I want people to know about. That was, that was something that you can't really, I couldn't really learn unless I did it.

Dane (40:10):

Um, but I, I looked over here, realtor review website, no contact database. And I was like, okay, well, what, what do you, what do you want? Like, well, I just don't want to have to log in to my contact database. So I was like, well, that's okay. Okay, great. Well, let's just get you like, uh, what, what do you wanna do? Like, he's like, I just need to know the clients I'm working with, so I don't forget about them and lose a deal. Okay. Well, let's just get you an email that goes out every day and just shows you a list of all your clients, a little phone number and a little note to remember them by, would that be useful? Oh my God. Yes. I would love that. Okay, great. So I got like 700 leads that people are like, yeah, I can't wait for this contact database software.

Dane (40:45):

That's going to either add a testimonial from one of the top agents. They're like this thing's going to be great. And that was the festival landing page. And like, I split tested headline after headline dead, simple contact database software, sorry to do contact based software. You don't have to log into. And I had, all I know is cost per lead and cost per click and cost per comp conversation. I had a 15 customers that paid for it. I had an agent say, I saved a $4,000 deal from using client lunchbox day. And I'm like, what's great. You want to sign up for an account? No. Right. Well this right. I was at two software companies before funnel dash and I'm still

Zach (41:34):

A victim of this today. I had, there was one that was incredibly over bloated with features in many of which two years down the line, it's like, Oh yeah, we spent $300,000 building that feature. And five people use it and, uh, but so-and-so influencer wanted it. So we built it. Right. And, uh, and then I think some, another company that was, I think just much more minimalistic in the sense that like their feature set was very minimal for a long time and still was, and, and they scaled the multiple eight figures. Right. So we're taught we're a little bit off, talk about a topic about ads, but as we're talking about finances, like us as marketers, we, it's very easy to get sloppy and bundling as the answer to every like all crappy offers and you just start like bundling, bundling, bundling. Um, this is comes out of, I think, of the info space. And, um, it's a, it's a really, it's a fast way to like, kill your profit margins where you're just like, Oh, this is, I'm assuming that all my clients like want all of these things. Can I say, yeah, go ahead.

Dane (42:54):

So, um, I want to like proliferate this as far as far and wide as possible, but I think the most profitable word in business is intimacy. And you know, like if you're thinking about how to create a killer offer, you just fricking ask your customer, do what would be a killer offer that you couldn't say no to you'll have it. You'll have it clear as day you ask what would be a super good win for you here? Like what would you know, one of my favorite ways to do it is what's the price that would be so low. That you'd question the value of my service. What's the price it'd be so high that it'd be out of reach for you and what price would be right in the sweet spot, where it would just fit perfectly. And then you just kind of strip emotion out of it, but you're intimate with someone and you ask them these, these three questions, um, and you start to get a sense of what would be winning, but in terms of financial ma like you asked about finances and how to like be patient, the rule of thumb there is do not be driven by compulsion, watch compulsion like a Hawk, because if you watch compulsion, then you'll come back to the point where you really just want to love someone, serve someone, do something great, because it just feels good to do that.

Dane (44:09):

That's, that's how you stay financially safe. And then, and then on the, on the other, on the other front is you, you financially structure a business. So it's profitable very quickly. And like, that's, that's a, that's a high intention. That's a high, high intention. You're not like I'll be profitable six months later. It's like, how do I structure the deal? So it's profitable right now. So, you know, I build a SAS business and I give equity away to a developer in exchange

Dane (44:32):

For future profit, you know, and like I'll cover his base expenses. So I build a product, my agent

Dane (44:38): It's a success,

Dane (44:39):

It's a mildly successful software product is like an extra 20 or 30 years

Dane (44:43):

Just runs fully automated. And it's

Dane (44:45):

Those side projects I gave the developer. I gave him 40% of the profit. And then, um, I covered his base living expenses so he could work

Dane (44:53):

Full-time on it. And then those base living expenses would come out of the future profits. Like, I, I just like, I structured that. And I remember telling that to a CEO is like, well, how do you do this stuff? I was like, well, if you haven't, if you have an intention of profitability and it's not out of ego, it's like out of like really it's out of keeping things safe and every deal you structure and set up pays for itself customers fund the development. That doesn't mean that to be pre-selling. I, I never did pre-selling and I don't think I've ever done pre-selling. And if people

Dane (45:23):

Will said yes to buy it before, that's all I usually need in my form of pre-selling was my first customer funds the development and

Dane (45:30):

Free for life. That's how I, that's how I used to do my projects. So I would do that just about everywhere I could. But the, the question to ask is how do I reduce the risk of this project? And we don't ask that because usually we're driven by compulsion, or we're like too ashamed to ask for help or these kinds of things. So, um, what you're looking for is there's like three different. There's like three,

Dane (45:57):

The different buckets save an idea. And if we compare it to like

Dane (46:00):

The balloon, like you blow up a balloon and then it just deflates right away. And that's most, most business ideas are there. And that's just because like, it's hard. So, but that's what, that's what, that's what most people have for a business. They're blow up every day and then just out. So they show up again and there's that one there's other ones you, and it's got a tiny leak. So you come back, it's a little smaller, but you got to blow it up again. And then there's the ideas where you just go one breath and that bulletin just goes up, floats off into the sky and you don't have to work harder. And like, if you look at, if you look for ideas, that's what I'm doing. When you're like, you're like testing for feelers, I'm looking for the thing that I can usually just kind of go. And then it just kind of goes off on its own. That's what

Dane (46:49):

I was doing when I really, really wanted something to

Dane (46:52):

Work. Now that I've kind of, CERED into a different evolution of entrepreneurship. Now I'm looking at, I now I'm looking at ideas that are towards really acute problems that exist. And I have the confidence now to confront those, confront those problems. So I see these problems that exist in the world as like forms of currents of energy. And I'll try and go step in the energy of that problem. And it just spits me out. And you know, that like practically

Dane (47:23):

Speaking, it's like someone tells you about a problem and you just can't handle it. So you don't want to listen anymore. Your energetic isn't capable of

Dane (47:30):

Handling that problem. So, um, what I'm, what I'm doing is I identify these problems and then I bring really smart people into my corner to develop myself image and allow me to, um, handle that handle that current of energy. So like, that's, that's kinda how I'm doing it now, as I'm surrendered, trying to be of like super, super strong service. And, um, it's really all driven from love. I've grabbed my own, I've got my own unconscious tendencies, but it's, it's as much as I can love.

Zach (48:01):

Hey, you're blowing my mind right now. I, uh, I feel like this is, uh, this is definitely gonna be one of those unique, rich port podcasts with people listening. And they're like, well, this is different, but I love it, man.

Dane (48:16):

It's a good quality of life. I work three hours a day. That's awesome.

Zach (48:21):

Oh, okay. So I feel like we can, we'll definitely have you back on the show cause we could dive into this stuff for like another hour, but, um, for the sake of time, tell everybody a little bit about like what you got going on right now, how people can kind of dive into this further,

Dane (48:35):

How we can support you. Well, you know, I've really loved, like I love mentoring. It's a really hard to admit that because it doesn't scale, but I really like it a lot, you know? Like, um, so if you, I, I have that mentoring group starters. If you go to start from and then you go to products, you'll see starters and we'll probably fill up to our 150 spots pretty fast. Um, but if we do have spots and you'd like to just be around this sort of energy and you'd like to be around a group of entrepreneurs, all living this way, it's pretty cool. We've got like a discord chat room or gamers usually hang out, but we're using that instead of Slack. And so we'll go live in that little voice chat room quite often and just like, say who needs help? And like people will share.

Dane (49:18):

And then we record those mentoring sessions and everyone can watch them later. And um, but starters would be, if you like to want more of this energy, um, I can't emphasize, like I want to emphasize just how good life can be and um, how you don't have to be thinking from survival. Like you like your life. Doesn't have to be, to figure out how to survive all the time. And it's not that your life could even be about figuring out a thrive. Your life could just be about true, true, true deep service because you're not so concerned with survival. And then when we get there, we're like, God, why, why is America condition need to struggle? Why has America conditioned me to always have to be figuring things out? Why does, why does America have to condition me to say, I'm only worthy if I get attention, why does America have to, to like in like you just look at all these things we're conditioned to do. Um, and you can kind of decondition back to your natural human state, which is to be of service. Um, and then you start plugging that into systems for wealth and then you go bonkers. So I would just say, start from,

Dane (50:28):

Check out the book. I've got a podcast actually, where I mentor people one-on-one live in sort of like hot seats live that you can listen to. And I just released the third season as well. That has five, four or five people at a time per hour mentor. So I mentor four or five people at a time in about an hour. It's pretty nuts, man. I love it. What's the name of the podcast? Start from zero. Oh, start from there. Okay, good. Dang. Thank you so much, man. This has been an amazing episode and uh, we've gone down a lot of different rabbit holes, but uh, I very much appreciate you being able to go there and um, encourage everybody to check out the podcast. Check out Dan's book.

Speaker 6 (51:07):

Um, yeah man, the fan be back on. Thanks so much. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich dad, poor dad podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for to leave a review that a rich ed or Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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