Former $400k/month Agency Owner Oli Billson talks Ads, Offers and Funnels

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Oli Billson


Oli Billson


Founder and CEO

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After successfully starting, growing and scaling five of his own businesses, Oli Billson is now focused on helping fellow Entrepreneurs win at business and succeed in life through his programs at

Episode Summary


  • How to reverse engineer funnels
  • Crafting high end and low end offers
  • Understanding how each part of the funnel correlates so you can forecast KPIs to hit your goal




Oli (00:00):

Uh, an ad at the beginning of this and investing into, um, solid lead gen for qualified sales appointments, to be able to afford you to sell a high ticket offer, whatever it may be. Um, most people don't really reverse engineer the whole thing. So starting at the end is really key to think back to, okay, how many sales do I actually want pear, I know squat a basic question, but how many that, what, how many calls do I actually need to have in order to be able to have that many calls? Obviously I have a show up rate. So there's a whole process that we look through initially of like, if we assume that the show up rate is going to be, say 70%, if we assume that the close ratio is going to be, um, like 25%,

Speaker 2 (00:56):


Zach (00:56):

You're listening to the rich add poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with core ads. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the rich dad. Poor dad podcast is your host, Zach Johnson. I'm with D C Dillon carpenter. How you doing Dylan? Good man. Got a special guest today, but you seem to speak, why is that the main chat conference? I'm all for this one today's guest has spoken at every marketing conference. I feel like, uh, if you've been to any marketing conference, uh, pre pre 2020, you know, who today's, uh, today's guest is, but I think, uh, the best I want to introduce some is as a guy that, that made the transition, the made the transition out of, uh, the agency life, a guy that, that had great success really.

Zach (02:03):

I mean, you know, there's Dan Kennedy is your in your client. Roster is a, is a pretty, pretty big win. I mean, those, they have some pretty high expectations over there. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm pretty excited to have him on he's. He's obviously been on, uh, everybody's podcasts as well, featured, you know, digital marketer and perpetual traffic and social media examiner, and I'm on Infusionsoft's stages. And, uh, I think that what he's up to now with, uh, his coaching program and his mastermind is really helping, um, agency owners create more leverage and create their own, um, education and coaching businesses. I would say he's also, I not exclusively working with agencies, but if you're listening to this, uh, I think that, and maybe you're a little burned out on, on agency life. You're, you're, you're thinking

Oli (03:03):

And about how do I get more leverage and, uh, escape, you know, doing fulfillment one-on-one, uh, this is going to be a phenomenal episode for you, so don't, let's do it. Huh? Hate man. You are the height man. The century man. All right, man.

Zach (03:21):

Ali Bilson. Hey, how

Oli (03:22):

Are you doing? Thanks. I'm fine. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on guys. Appreciate it. Yes, sir.

Zach (03:29):

Yes, sir. So for the folks that may not have a senior round and everybody a little bit up to speed on what you're up to,

Oli (03:39):

Uh, right now and what you're working on. Yeah. She'll think so. I think probably, uh, and thanks for the introduction that was mighty. Um, yeah, most people probably know me from, um, kind of speaking on stage really about how we've helped grow typically information, marketing, coaching mastermind type businesses, and, um, really for a very long period of time, we were running an agency. We were fairly successful at doing that and had quite a roster of clients. Um, and we managed to grow very quickly up to nearly $400,000 a month of recurring revenue, which was pretty awesome. It was great. Um, but, um, we really amassed a lot of intellectual property. We amassed a lot of, uh, systems tools and things that how would us to be able to get results for our clients and which was pretty awesome, but, um, kind of bringing an agency up to that point, uh, the service delivery aspect of it was really killing me. And so we decided to pivot into, uh, really teaching people what we were doing for others, which was helping them build their own online education businesses. And so I acquired next level Um, and that's really where I spend my time now helping other agency owners escape that life or service-based businesses, um, really to build a business inside of the business, uh, as an additional income stream, we'll pivot entirely with what they know into running their own coaching programs, mastermind, and, uh, online programs. So one of the things

Zach (05:15):

I see a lot of agencies struggle with in, as they're wanting to do this, and I feel like I've talked with many agencies that, that have this on their to-do list for several years and aren't able to fully make that pivot. But I think one of the biggest things that they struggle with is the structuring of it,

Oli (05:34):

The, the offer and, and

Zach (05:37):

How it's so different than,

Oli (05:41):


Zach (05:41):

Agency offer, right. The agencies officer's like, Oh, this is your problem. Like, I can do that for you. A lot of times in the agency space,

Zach (05:48):

A lot of people just end up taking orders, uh, for the most part. Um, and, uh, so what do you typically or teach

Zach (05:58):

With with next level business and in your mastermind in terms of how people can start thinking about it,

Oli (06:04):

Structuring an offer here? Yeah, so I think probably one of the things that people don't really realize is that this opportunity lives inside of that agency or that business, because that constantly, um, using what they know to be able to get results. And typically what they know is, should be structured into some sort of system. Perhaps they've already started thinking about productizing their offering, and they've heard that throne allowance are thrown around a little bit. Um, and so they've got some standard operating practices maybe that they use to set up ads or, uh, you know, be able to get a good, tight message to market match for that client and do different things. And actually a lot of these things can be born about, of actually just creating a great library of what we actually do as a business day to day that then, then can transcend into, well, if we can train internally how we do these things, then actually these are things that may, we may want to offer out to the market either for clients that might not be so well qualified for our done for you offer, um, or as a way to, um, attract many more people to, to what we actually do, that they may actually gravitate up and ascend up to our done for you offer.

Oli (07:30):

So it can either be an entry level offer, or it can certainly attract many different types of people to you with things and assets that you've got around you that, that already exist really. Um, so it kind of really is initially born about, in most cases from, we've probably already got training, we've already probably got internal training, um, or we're thinking about it, um, why not structure it initially almost for ourselves. And then that could be something that would be a value to perhaps other people in order to be able to get that result for them, um, as a kind of a done with you or a, a DIY kind of, um, opportunity that they could take advantage of. Yeah, I love it. So one of the things,

Zach (08:15):

So we absolutely love to dive into this show is winning, winning ad campaigns and, uh, enrich ads. I'm curious, you know, you get to see a lot of, uh, different funnels, but you know, both from your agency days and you know, what you guys are doing yourself, you know, right now versus, uh, you know, what your, what your coaching and mastermind students are doing. Talk to us about a rich ad, like what what's working, you know, in this space right now to be able to sell high ticket coaching program and mastermind in, in a, in a time of COVID where masterminds were pretty much like the whole value of mastermind is meeting up at a place and being in person.

Oli (08:56):

And I don't know, it's like intimate setting, um, coaching, you know, not so much so, but, uh, yeah, so break it down for me.

Zach (09:04):

What's working now. I think probably, yeah,

Oli (09:09):

Got a bit of an unfair advantage when it comes to kind of, uh, phone funnels and being able to drive a predictable level of qualified, um, thousand appointments. Um, just because my back story is kind of selling high ticket, um, with everything else that I'd done even before our agency stuff. So I kind of draw upon a lot of that experience of when it comes to Cray and gay, you know, um, uh, rich and winning ad, um, for, for being able to do this because as you know, when you've probably had a lot of people on that as well, but also make a great business from this, a lot of people kind of subscribed to the idea of like the Ascension ladder and the fact that, you know, we have to kind of generate a lead and then we have to find a way to kind of liquidate the cost of that lead with some kind of lower end offer.

Oli (09:57):

And then there's some sort of Ascension path ultimately to them getting to the promise land, you know, at the top of the tree, top of the pyramid. And quite honestly, although yeah, we've been really successful in some kind of information, information publishing businesses, um, doing that for people, um, and advising upon that, most of what we teach is actually quite the opposite. And it's basically taking somebody completely cold from click to high ticket client in a very short period of time. Um, and I think probably the best place to start rarely is at the end. Um, and one of the things that I find when it comes to creating an ad at the beginning of this and, and investing into, um, solid lead gen for qualified sales appointments, to be able to afford you to sell a high ticket offer, whatever it may be. Um, most people don't really reverse engineer the whole thing.

Oli (10:55):

So starting at the end is really key to think back to, okay, how many sales do I actually want here? I know it's quite a basic question, but how many that, how, what, how many calls do I actually need to have in order to be able to have that many calls? Obviously I have a show up rate. So there's a whole process that we look through initially of like, if we assume that the show up rate is going to be, say 70%, if we assume that the close ratio is going to be, um, like 25%, then how many people would need to, um, go and make an application. How many of those people that make an application actually book a call? Um, how many of the people that watched our video go and make an application? How many people actually then opted in to watch the video, then how many people actually clicked from the ad to the landing page?

Oli (11:47):

And we actually registered a landing page view, and then all the way back to making assumptions about even CPMs and thinking about our market and what we're likely to pay in terms of CPMs. And from that kind of now going from front to back, we can say, well, if our CPMs are say $30, um, and our click through rate is say 1%. And our landing page conversion is say 30%. And our video view conversion is like 12%. Um, and then our application to share Angela is say, um, 70% on our show. It right, 17%. We pretty much know that if we're selling a $10,000 offer, um, that it's probably going to cost us somewhere in the region of about two to two and a half thousand dollars to acquire that client. Um, which sounds amazing. But one of the things that most people don't realize is there's that cash collection and revenue, it's two completely different things. So depending upon the payment plan of that $10,000 invoice, we know we need to understand like what the cashflow trough is in terms of how far are we, how close are we to that? Um, in order for us to gap, what's the cash collection on day one of invoice, um, that we're not just banking revenue, that it's actually cash collection that then allows us and affords us margin on the front to be able to put back into ads and continue beginning to scale. Have you seen

Zach (13:19):

With COVID, have you seen a lot more payment plans and a lot less pay, you know, throw it down the full, full 10 K if you make a decision right now. Yeah. What was re what's actually really interesting is at the point where

Oli (13:33):

All of this craziness was going on. And I think there's probably a little bit more craziness going on in that to come even. Um, but what I would say is, um, it was actually quite the opposite for us. Uh, we actually were finding that most people were, um, were actually doing full, pays for a lot of our programs. Um, really without any incentive based pricing to, to, to be able to do that, maybe that's because they wanted to, there was some psychology of wanting to really lock that in and not wanting to fall behind if anything would happen, that they really wanted to see what we're offering as a catalyst for them. And in a lot of cases, what we do obviously is positioned more as a new opportunity, um, versus, and that's the vehicle for them. Um, and, and I think people want it to be all in with that.

Oli (14:26):

Um, and you know, I think for me, uh, that's probably quite, you know, most people would probably expect me to say, of course there was a lot more payment plans because portfolio people had fallen hard on times, but this is related to a, a while. I'm just about say is related to a rich out is like, this is something that I picked up a long time ago. There's like three kind of categories of like offer. Um, the first is like repair a repair based offer. And so, you know, if you see an ad, um, and somebody is touting that, you know, they can help you or do some things in some way, um, if it falls under the category of that, you're repairing something for them. Uh, you're fixing something for them. Um, generally speaking, that's not that sexy. Um, and it's difficult to create something that's really going to pull people in if it's just repair.

Oli (15:24):

The second is improvement, um, and an improvement based that is a much better than a repair based ad. Um, and most people's ads, quite frankly, um, I'm generalizing stereotyping, um, but fall in this kind of catch of being improvement and, you know, improvement is kind of linked to some form of obligation rarely. Um, and you know, is probably put in a bit of a category of being, uh, addressed with a lot of other options. Um, and then the third, which most people know this, um, but rarely actually practice it is opportunity and opportunities really more related with desire than anything else. And of course it's much easier to create more of a category of one when you're positioning something with a unique mechanism, um, and a unique mechanism to the problem, as well as the solution. Um, and those are the ads really that really create some form of traction and have longevity as well in terms of creative because, um, regard, I mean, especially the high ticket offers that we're not having to constantly recreate refresh creative all the time to continually gap high CPMs. We can kind of create these kind of almost like Trojan horse type ads that, um, that lasts a lot longer. Um, and, uh, that have a much better half-life to them.

Speaker 2 (16:52):

Now, when it comes to your, kind of the coaching mastermind style, kind of with these types of offers, do you, you know, kind of teach everybody each individual one and how to come up with craft an offer for them, you know, based off their skillsets, or did they have them focus in one specific area? How do you kind of incorporate that and you're kind of coaching out of curiosity?

Oli (17:13):

Yeah. So I think when a lot of people come to us, they may already have an idea of like, Oh, maybe I want to do a membership, right. It might be like a subscription, a higher kind of like level subscription. Uh, some people think, you know, selling a $2,000 product is a good idea, like a digital product. Um, and they kind of fall in this kind of range here, whether it's a lot to different things that we address, the first thing some people think, well, what I've got is probably worth a few thousand dollars and I can sell that through some sort of automated webinar. Um, but the reality is, is with certainly the cost of advertising, um, that, that, that is a lot less margin and a lot more, there's a lot more chance that, you know, that might not go right for you, uh, compared to having a much higher ticket offer that is actually going to deliver a much bigger transformation.

Oli (18:09):

That's really what we focus on is instead of thinking about just solving one problem for somebody which a lot of people teach, which is cool, you know, there's a lot of good $400 courses, nine, nine, seven courses, $2,000 courses thinking about a program that has the component of the curriculum, which gives them the teaching, the training, the self-paced learning, but then also has the coaching element to it as well. Um, and that then really extends the value of what you're offering into something that's probably more like five or $10,000, which means you can then affordably spend a lot more money to get the right people into the program that you can really help make a full transformation, um, to, to, to be able to make that, you know, a real reality for them with not just information alone, but backed up by poaching and an, a proper kind of support structure. So I guess really the answer is, um, we really know that we're more about trying to help people see that their offer should be more transformative and in doing so, it can't really just be information related. There needs to be some sort of community element. There also needs to be some sort of coaching element, and there also needs to be an information part to it as well.

Speaker 2 (19:27):

That makes total sense. And with these specific high ticket offers, do y'all usually have down-sells going into them or something kind of along those lines to where I'm kind of curious if whenever you kind of go in for, you know, high ticket five to 10 K offer, and maybe you end up throwing something nine, nine, seven, and their face. I could it's for the more, you know, core offering being the highest, biggest side. Have you all ever kind of say anything like that?

Oli (19:47):

Yeah, absolutely. Great question. So let's assume that you're an agency owner and maybe you're an agency owner that specializes in SEO, for example. Um, and you came to us next level business, and you were like, Hey, you know, like I'm thinking about creating like a coaching program mastermind or something like that. Really we would focus on, um, building and, and setting up really like our way and go through the whole process, but like a, a beta type charter program to begin with. Because most people, you shouldn't really create a program until you've sold it first. You don't really know what the market needs. Um, so there's a whole kind of MVP process to actually doing this rather than hoping you build it and they'll come. Um, but let's suppose you're starting and it's a $6,000 program, uh, that your, your, your program is going to be generally speaking.

Oli (20:39):

Most that's gonna really be targeted. Your SEO program is going to be based rarely to other business owners, right. And those business owners that are B to B, they probably have budget 5,000, $6,000 on a program or a coaching program. That, again, they say the Valley because I can see the return because they've already got a business makes sense. Right. Um, so that's really where they should focus because there's already a need. There's already a problem. There's a challenge. There's also desire there in the marketplace to improve your SEO and to do it probably yourself rather than using an agency. So, um, that's my kind of program and that's the first place they should go. They have the right margin to be able to do it. Your question is about downside, which I'll come back to in a second. So that's the first program you should create.

Oli (21:25):

The second program is some form of Ascension for clients that want more proximity to you, and also value the community aspect of being around other people like them that have got results from that middle program, that $6,000 program that you've put them through. And they may want to come into a higher level coaching or mastermind group that may be more like 25, uh, 36,000, 70,000 a year to be part of, to be much part of a much higher elite level, I suppose, like you've got really good at it. And now you want to just get, you know, you want to refine it and really take things to the next level. So that those two offers a coaching program and a mastermind to both B2B offers. You know, you're not going to sell somebody off the street into your mastermind right off the bat, but it provides good lifetime value for that Ascension from the middle program to the mastermind.

Oli (22:19):

And the other thing with the mastermind there, isn't a lot of deliverable other than some, um, [inaudible] quarterly meetings and maybe another call each week that's done in a group. So people like that element to it once they built that first program and they've maxed out, usually most people in our program start thinking about a mastermind once they're up to about a hundred thousand a month. And then they'll say, well, how do I take this to the next level? Now, will you kind of make that step where you've already got customers that you can sell into an and them up there really you've got two programs now. Um, we haven't even touched any low ticket stuff or any down sells. We really just being very, very focused on that middle program now where the lower ticket, let's say nine, nine, seven or $2,000 program. Uh, and it probably goes up to about three K to be honest with you, comes in, is where all of our marketing has been focused around B2B.

Oli (23:14):

And what we might want to do is create a business opportunity. So what we might want to do, if I'm a SEO agency owner, and I've created this coaching program, I might want to now create a, how to start and grow your own hyper profitable local search engine, um, marketing agency in your local area and make your first $10,000 a month. That might be the offer. And because they've got the capital behind them, they've got the cashflow behind them from the success I've had from the coaching program, the mastermind, they can now go to a much broader audience that may not be business owners, or they may be freelances. And they can offer a business opportunity knowing that they can affordably market to those people. And those people will be buying those offers because that's really the kind of point that makes sense. And they can then build, you know, more of the foundational stuff for how to start and grow a business. So it kind of goes B to B and then a B2B Ascension. And then we come back round to more of a, B to C business opportunity offer a lower end. So it's less of a down sell. It's more of a, a repositioning of a different market. Really,

Zach (24:29):

Man, I might've blown over here. Oh yeah. You know, uh, we wrote, this is so funny. I, I just feel so convicted that I'm making these mistakes, even with some of the, even with some of the best we, uh, we wrote this book last year, it was called the agency growth book and we did it with Ryan, um, Dyson and digital marketer. And the biggest thing I would have changed in that book was agency growth just assumes an improvement. And we kept hitting like a plateau on that offer. And, uh, our, our, our copywriter at the time was just like, yeah, he's like, you really needed to like speak to somebody that wants to start an agency. If you want to scale a single several hundred thousand dollars a month in spend. And, uh, and so digital marketer like totally dove into that where they're like, yeah, we're going to target consultants. And some of those people are going to graduate into agencies. And, uh, I feel like, um, I should've known better, but I still make these mistakes to this day. I'll tell you

Oli (25:36):

To your point. I think this is like such a big takeaway, hopefully for somebody who's listening for the ads more than the ads in that offer, right. Is I talked about like those three things like repair, not so good. Um, repair is more about need, uh, improvement is more about obligation and opportunity is about desire. That's simple. So repair is linked to need need is obviously boring. Um, and even when you're done and you've done something for somebody you have, you've got exactly the same thing as you have before. So that's not great. Um, improvement, um, is linked to obligation obligation. It's often resisted. It's very much resented people procrastinate over improvement. Um, and they, begrudgingly reluctantly will do something about it. If they have, um, opportunity linked to desire, that's more exciting. Um, and really, you know, for me, hopefully as the takeaway for somebody is now don't sell replacement or repair [inaudible] opportunity.

Zach (26:39):

Oh my gosh, I love that. That's so good. Uh, I'm thinking through

Oli (26:44):

Like every offer I've come up with and, uh, it's just like bucketing them right now.

Speaker 4 (26:49):

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Oli (28:06):

Check it This is amazing. So I want to hear about what's, uh, what's something that you thought was gonna totally crush and sent you to the poor house. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Sorry, comes out. Is that right? All right. So do you think you're so smart? Okay, Ali, uh, that was something about that. That really was shocking. Okay, cool. So I would say that, um, what I'm about to say might surprise a lot of people, but it is the absolute truth. And, um, I came up with this idea and I think a lot of people in our space who run ads, um, looks at, um, I think there's a number of people that have popularized debt, but basically it was creating a, uh, if you want to call it a traffic system, you can. Uh, but I kind of came up with my own framework for it.

Oli (29:05):

It was really about building a good, well, good value content, uh, through kind of like a full funnel approach. So I'll explain what I mean. Um, technically what we would do is we would go and create lots of different content, um, for top of funnel. And so we would rent a video view, uh, campaign on Facebook, um, that essentially got people to watch our videos. Um, and the top layer of the top of funnel was videos and content that was related to problems and desires. So if you looked at any of that top of funnel content, it was all kind of problems and desires. And it was me speaking on stage and, you know, doing, you know, talking about these issues. And of course, if you don't know me from Adam in different areas of the world, you, that would be interesting to you. Um, and so we put a lot of effort into the video side of things and the campaign work that they wouldn't move to the middle of the funnel content, which I'll come back to in a second, unless they watched.

Oli (30:06):

So they would be excluded for themselves. So we would have like 20 pieces of content, top of funnel. If they watched, um, a 15 second through play, then they would then go into the audience for the middle of the funnel. And then if they watch three seconds of the video, then they'd be excluded from that one video. But then they would see the next top of funnel video content. It would create the audience for itself and each one will be excluded from themselves if everybody's followed following so far. So the idea is, is that they would go through, you know, they could watch multiple pieces top of funnel content, but they've never seen the same piece of content again, if they'd started watching it for three seconds. And then if they had watched 15 seconds, they'd go into the middle of the funnel. So in the middle of the funnel, um, we start building this audience and again, I'd have another sort of 10 pieces of content in the middle of the funnel.

Oli (31:02):

And what I wanted to talk about there was about commandments, um, and beliefs. So not problems and desires, cause that's all top of funnel, middle of funnel is more commandments and beliefs. And this is where I really I'd have some content from me again, uh, cut up talking about like, you know, what we believe to be true that, you know, in every business there's a, there's a business inside of your business that you don't know exists. Um, that's our belief. Um, and obviously we have a solution to that, which is, you know, our program of course. Um, and I would talk about other commandments as well. Um, and in the middle of the funnel, we'd do something where we'd say, you know, you like this content, um, than, um, you know, share it with other people. And we wouldn't really be driving a call to action.

Oli (31:52):

Um, in any of these things, complete Goodwill content, again, in the middle of the funnel, if they watched any video, more than 15 seconds on a three play, they dang go into the bottom of the funnel audience. And that bottom of the funnel, that's where we actually found that we could almost just send people at that point directly to a calendar or an application quiz and then booking straight into a high ticket sale. And this whole kind of traffic system sounded amazing, right? We got our kind of what we do in different places. We've got these inclusions and exclusions. We can go out to huge, huge interest based and category based, very broad targeting top of funnel, allow that to just really be able to just fall in the best people as we go through and off we go to the races. Well, there was two big mistakes that I made.

Oli (32:45):

Um, one was that, um, I, we were putting quite a lot of ad spend through this cause you need a lot of video views to bring them down to the bottom of the funnel, uh, to get enough of an audience that to be able to actually market to. And a lot of the cases you're using like a reach objective right at the bottom of the funnel, because often these are smaller pools of audience. So I ran a lot of ad spend at the top of the funnel and in the middle of the funnel, what I was doing was I was doing it on auto placement. So most people know I was giving Facebook as much, uh, uh, you know, uh, opportunity as possible, uh, to spend my money. And what was happening was I was like, I don't really understand that we're spending all this money. We're getting like literally hundreds of thousands of video views, but not many of them are coming through the funnel. And as it turned out that when I did the breakdown of the placements of where my money was being spent, it was actually being spent in the audience network on some things, which is the, uh, the thing that happens before the games. You know what I mean? Um, Zack, where I have to watch the video and it's a forced video view. Like you can't skip it.

Zach (33:59):

Audience network is like the worst,

Oli (34:03):

The worst traffic. So, and I think it was called reward video, which basically is these games. And I just didn't realize that, you know, that it was because it was, you know, we were bringing people that into other parts of the funnel. Um, but nothing was happening with them. Right. It was just terrible audiences that we were building. And, um, it was

Zach (34:30):

Avoid audience network. It'll get a share every time. Yeah, absolutely.

Oli (34:35):

Um, and that, I guess the second realization was, although probably how I've explained, it sounds like this would be some sort of win. Um, it absolutely wasn't a win. And you know, what I found was that I think that when we, we do what we do, which is we're trying to drive people into qualified sales appointments, you know, um, a lot of the time where people are trying to get really clever with these sorts of strategy strategies, I thought I was like a magician. Um, the truth of the matter is, is that, um, you know, it probably three to 5% of the audience that you want to ideally target today with the right ad, that's different, that's polarizing, that's probably a little bit controversial that nails, the problem that provides a unique solution and you can show results. You can pretty much come right at the bottom there and take all of those people off the table every single day.

Oli (35:32):

And Facebook can find more of them for you. Um, and it's a lot less complicated. Don't have to wait as long to do it. And it kind of does fly in the face. A lot of why using all of the different objectives. Like I was talking about that book, quite honestly, you don't need hundreds and hundreds of sales calls. You know, one sales rep can do a hundred grand a month. I don't know why people want to build their businesses too, but we have multiple six figure months with light two raps. So, um, it, I don't need to worry about that. I mean, as far as I

Zach (36:04):

For a second, like how do you, um, and I think this may also be just a segment into this next segment, as we start talking about just the financial, you know, principles here. One of the things I'm thinking about is how do you incentivize your sales people, uh, you know, you know, with, with these programs, how do you incentivize them on getting aligned for getting as much cash up front versus payment plans, straight commissions, do you

Oli (36:32):

Yeah. W typically we, um, we are, we, we, with the two offers they're selling high ticket. Um, so we have a, really a role that we kind of give people is that they want to be really paying commission or some sort of draw, um, if they need to, you know, in the early days, maybe when your offer isn't as refined. And you're not quite sure, like by what the close rate should be. I actually always advise people, even if they're a bit introverted and don't want to do the sales calls to do the sales calls anyway themselves, before they hire a rep, just so they can understand like what the show appears and what the close rate should be. Um, and then bring a wrap in at that point, when, you know, they, when a rep comes in, they may be a bit unsure about who you are.

Oli (37:20):

Um, and you know, you may have to put them on a drawer. So, you know, I'm gonna pay you $5,000 a month, but you have to make X amount of sales before you have to bring in this much cash collection before then you then start making commission. That's kind of a draw of people don't know what that means. Um, but I'm more of a fan really of hiring like good raps, um, who kind of may have already sold these types of things in the past, um, may and also understand the offer and may also be a path customer is a good kind of pool for them. And we pay dependent upon the offer between 10 to 15%, um, of cash collection basically means, say it was 10% for easy numbers. If he was selling a $5,800 offer, then they, they did a one pay, like all, all up front 5,800, then they get paid $590.

Oli (38:12):

Um, and then of course, if it was a toupee and it was 2,900 or three payments of a two K, they would only get paid on the cash collection. So every time we collected, so the second or third month payment, then they would still get that 10% of those collections. Um, but it also that incentivizes them, if they've oversold on the phone to a high ticket program, then, and they really push somebody over the line with a three pay and that person, you know, drops out of collection, then there's actually an opportunity for that rep to re-engage them rather than a customer support person, um, to be able to do that. Um, you know, honestly, yeah, yeah. I think most of the time though, to be honest with a lot of the time, like, um, that also plays into ads as well, right? Because, um, the, that cashflow trough is very real.

Oli (39:07):

Um, and the lead to buy a time like that. I think I'll just say this very quickly, because there's some light, some good stuff in this, but most people don't measure like lead to schedule, call time. So they don't know how many days that is. They also don't know how many days it takes from somebody actually having a scheduled appointment for them actually buying. And then the third metric is what the lead to actual buyer time is. So most people don't measure all of those things to really understand, like with confidence, which it's all about how much confidence do I have in scaling this thing, because they don't know that those things

Zach (39:48):

You're playing with high stakes here. And so a couple things I want to highlight, um, is you're on a $10,000 coaching offer. You're going to spend, let's say up to $2,500, ideally on paid traffic, you're going to pay out up to a thousand dollars in sales commission. So you're in it, you know, 3,500 and you're in a leverage fulfillment model. Um, is there anything else that, that, that comes to mind,

Oli (40:15):

The general expenses of like, you know, you've got, um, your FunnelDash account obviously pays for itself, right? You've got your, um, you've got,

Zach (40:26):

Yeah, let's say over, let's just say overhead, you know, throw in another 10% or something like that. Yeah,

Oli (40:32):

Yeah, absolutely. And that's where,

Zach (40:35):

So now you can go from an agency, sorry to sorry to K up there. You can go from an agency with 10 to 20% margins to a leverage model with, you know, 50, 55, 60% margins, um, which is a better life. The other, the other part I was talking about the cash component, if I'm summarizing this correctly, if you're spending, you know, uh, 25, 2,500 out the gate, is it fair to say that the time from lead to sale, you know, is going to be 30 to 30 days and then maybe time to break even on this model is going to be closer to 60, 60?

Oli (41:14):

Um, no, um, it's actually, um, uh, might, might surprise you, but as 60, more than 60% of our calls are one call closes. Um, so we don't actually open the calendars out more than three, more than four in advance. So the moment that somebody ops in and then they go through the process, um, they are, you know, there's obviously a funnel that goes on for, you know, 30 days or short-term nurture or whatever, but the majority of people, um, are people that go from opt in to their scheduled appointment. Um, and then from that point they can generally then book, um, maybe not the same day, cause there's a bit of indoctrination, a bit of priming that goes on before the call with stuff, we send them, but we don't have the calendars more than four days out because generally the show up rate declines quite quick.

Oli (42:13):

Um, I feel like we could have you back for a whole nother episode all just on like one call closes and structuring this call, but yeah, you've been amazing. And, uh, I, um, I think it's been like an awesome, awesome episode. I would love to have everybody just kind of learn a little bit more about how, you know, how they can get in touch and what you've got going on because, uh, I feel like this, this podcast is like the perfect pitch for any agency that wants to, to create a leveraged program. Yeah. I mean, um, anybody that wants to scale past a hundred grand a month, uh, with some degree of speed, obviously profit, predictability, and do it without working evenings and weekends, uh, doing your agency, then we can absolutely definitely help. Um, for sure with that that's awesome. Is that they just go to a next level, that's it? Yeah. Next level and, um, there's like some, there's a little quiz at the bottom of the page there and, um, uh, then we can, we can talk to you about how we might be to help. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much, Holly. I really appreciate it. Spin that

Speaker 4 (43:31):

Amazing episode. You're very welcome. Thanks guys. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review and I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed to leave a review that a rich ed or Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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