Creating Winning Ad Templates With OG Advertiser Rory Stern

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Rory Stern


Rory Stern


Chief Strategiest

RFS Digital Media
Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsLive on SpotifyLive on Youtube

Rory is the founder and chief strategist at RFS Digital Media. He helps businesses convert cold traffic into more leads and sales.

Episode Summary


Ever wonder what kind of ad templates set the biggest brands up for success? Tune in as we have Rory Stern as we dive into his MASSIVE accounts on how he tests different copy angles to really draw out quality traffic that converts.




Dylan (00:00):

On this episode of the rich head for ed podcast, we have Rory stern from RFS media. Who's responsible for spending 10 million plus for some of the biggest advertisers out there, we dive into his template for his ads, which creates super compelling emotions and a kind of a psychology effect, which bring in, you know, high quality prospects. We dive into how he pre-qualifies individuals within the copy to increase that conversion value and ultimately knowing your numbers now important. It is when you're trying to scale, make sure to tune in. Don't want to miss this one.

Rory Stern (00:31):

If you start out your copy with, are you tired, frustrated, sick, and tired. Number one, it's a policy violation all that out. But if you think about it like a logically, do you want to talk to somebody who's tired, fed up and frustrated? No, they're not a good client. They're going to be tired, fed up and frustrated. But if you reframe and talk about the positives of what you can do, so you've got a picture of somebody who's frustrated and you talk about it and you're painting the picture with your words. Imagine if your calendar was full, imagine if Now you're painting that positive. You're getting into the psychology of what you want, and you're able to pre-qualify in my opinion, and we've got data to back it up. You're going to get more qualified.

Speaker 3 (01:18):


Zach (01:28):

Listening to the rich and poor ed podcast, where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with poor ads. Let's get into it.

Dylan (02:03):

Oh man. Now we're ready for this one.

Zach (02:05):

Take you down memory lane today, Dylan, this is going to be great because, uh, T tell everybody the little story of, of how, you know, today's guests. Yeah.

Dylan (02:14):

[inaudible] thousands of emails later. Maybe some calls who knows, but yeah, this had to have been three and a half, maybe four years ago. He was in my book of business at Facebook and he was, you know, one of the bigger spenders. So of course I'm trying to get in contact with them and it was it

Zach (02:27):

It's Rory full circle. That's awesome. You tried really hard too. You were kind of like giddy about it. You're like, Oh, this guy's like a really big deal. I really hope I can get in touch with that. I'm sure you've got the right Rory. I don't know about the big deal thing. Like I'm looking over my shoulder. So Rory is the co-founder of RFS, digital media and the creator of, uh, also co-founder of groove ads, both, uh, digital media and, uh, hade media advertising agencies. You're going to be managing upwards of 10 million in media this year, across all your accounts, which is awesome. It's a big milestone hitting eight figures in spend and also proud owner of a secret lab, uh, office chair that we are absolutely loving.

Rory Stern (03:17):

Currently. We need to get them to sponsor the show this week.

Zach (03:19):

Yes, exactly. Uh, but awesome, man. I'm excited to have you on the show. Welcome. Thank you. It's really good to be here. So tell everybody a little bit about how much of an OJI you are in the world of paid advertising. Cause you've been doing this a while. You've worked with some pretty big names. You have everybody up to speed.

Rory Stern (03:38):

I haven't heard of it. I consider myself an OJI, but, um, I've been running ads, paid ads for seven years, eight years now. Uh, I've been a full-time digital marketer for 14 years and, uh, started RFS digital media just over four years ago would have been August of 2016. Um, so then been, been around the block a little bit, um, spent some money, uh, done a lot of great stuff, made a lot of mistakes, had a lot of fun along the way.

Zach (04:12):

That's awesome, man. So we're going to dive into it. You get to see in a lot of, a lot of campaigns, you can see, uh, what's working now and, uh, enlighten us and lighten us on Rory on how, how do you go about making a rich ad for your clients?

Speaker 5 (04:34):


Rory Stern (04:35):

So, you know, it's interesting, right? Like we were talking about this. I don't have one specific example. Um, and part of that is because as I mentioned to you guys, uh, I don't talk about clients. You know, everything is 100% confidential. Um, a lot of that comes from my psychology days when I was in practice. You just don't talk about your clients outside of the office. It's plain and simple. Um, maybe

Zach (05:00):

On podcasts,

Rory Stern (05:04):

You know, it's, it's, it's funny, right? Like we can go down this path for a minute. Like in the medical, in the medical psychiatry, psychology world, you can talk about your clients, but you have to change the name. You have to change identifying information, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So if we talk about like, how could I do that with ads? Well, I have a SAS company as a, as a client. They're one of the fastest growing. Like you want to connect the dots? Go ahead. I'm not going to,

Zach (05:27):

When I do that, when I do that, I use fake names. Like, so I have this client, let's just say, they're Coca Cola, you know, or I have this client, let's just say they're Nike. Um, so some people just always think you're working with like the biggest names in the world,

Rory Stern (05:42):

But here here's another one. Cause we were taught, I don't know, again, you and you and Ashton were talking about this. Um, w we have helped, you know, one of the largest, most successful, um, financial publishing companies in the world, in the marketing space. So you can try to poke around and connect the dots. But that's about as in Sachs, Goldman Sachs, there you go. Bank of America. So that's about as specific as I get. And I share that because I'm not here with a specific example from a client, that's killing it. And at the same time, I'm not going to look at some ad that, and I think people who do this are just ridiculous. They grab an ad off of Facebook and they go, Oh, this guy must be killing it. Well, how do you know? Well, they've got, you know, tens of thousands of views and likes and share great.

Rory Stern (06:28):

That doesn't mean. You don't know their numbers. You don't know what they're doing. Um, I've been around long enough to know that what you see on an ad that you're not running. Cause we've been behind the scenes of so much. It doesn't mean anything. So we're going to talk about a template. Like for me, a rich ad is, is templated. And it's something we developed over the years. First one I was trained and you know, we always start, our ads always start with an image. Um, you know, even to this day in, in, you know, mobile first creative world, we always still start with 1200 by six 28. What does that nine by 16 dimensions? That's just the way I, you know, that was the, the image dimension back in the day, they didn't have one-to-one, they didn't have video. And the images we create are all psychologically driven. We want to create an image that elicits a response from the user. We want to paint a picture and there's, there's two ways that we do it. I don't think this is groundbreaking. So let's just clear the air.

Speaker 5 (07:33):

This is not groundbreaking. This is [inaudible]

Rory Stern (07:40):

Behavior, right? So you think about it. There's two emotions we want to elicit. There's something positive. There's something negative you want to figure out. Do we want to stir up a negative feeling for somebody looking at our ad or do we want to stir up something positive? And I promise I'll get concrete. And especially let's, let's back up a second. Cause I'm big on compliance and policy, which Dylan, you and I need to talk about big time separately. Um, you know, Facebook, doesn't like a lot of negative stuff. So a lot of the stuff that we do tends to be more of the positive. So what's a positive we think about it. What's the outcome. What is it that somebody wants? Right? You're you know, if, if we're looking at Facebook, if we go back to the fundamentals, it's interruption, marketing, most people are not on Facebook to go shopping and to buy in, to be sold.

Rory Stern (08:28):

They're there to share memes and cat pictures and, and, and be social justice, warriors and stirrup crap in comments, especially politically charged environment that that's why people are there. Like that's what they're there to do. And then you got grandma and grandpa out in the Midwest who are there to look at, you know, their kids' pictures and dogs and puppies and kitties and all that cute stuff. So they're not there to buy your stuff. So we're creating images that first off, stop the scroll, grab attention. And once you stop the scroll and grab the tension, you have an instant, an instant, like what is it, a millisecond to grab attention? And I forget which, Oh, gee, now we're going way back. Oh, gee, um, copywriter and advertiser said, you know, they came up with, for advertising purposes, a picture captures or a picture speaks a thousand words.

Rory Stern (09:21):

So let the creative that you start with speak a thousand words. So let's take, for instance, an agency owner, something Zach you're familiar with. I'm familiar with Dylan. You're probably familiar with too. You know, we could go the lifestyle route of let's throw up, you know, yachts and Ferrari's and Lamborghini's and the guru shots. Well, in our experience, you know who that attracts broke newbies. So if you want to attract a broke newbie, who's going to buy your stuff. $7 trip wire and never buys your high ticket item. Go ahead and throw up a Ferrari, a Lambo, a mansion, get on with it, have fun. Um, if you, you know, same thing goes for the laptop lap, laptop lifestyle. Like if you're throwing up some dude in a hammock, chilling on the beach, drinking a margarita, congratulations, you're attracting a broke newbie. Um, but if you start thinking, okay, well, what, what's the picture with an agency owner? You know, what's that you said babies and cats.

Rory Stern (10:29):

So if you think about it, what do a lot of people, w what's what's one of the biggest problem with agency owners? You know, they don't have good lead gen or are you going to put up a picture of someone like pulling out their hair and frustrated? That could be it. Cause then I'm scrolling through Facebook and I go, yeah, I get that feeling. I get it. But then your copy's got to be on point. We'll tie it into that. Cause the pulling out the hair, if you don't, if you don't do the right copy, if you don't match the right copy, you're going to attract the wrong person. Um, so, so what's a positive outcome. I don't know. Somebody's out enjoying a baseball game, being free living life, um, which almost that goes against everything we're going to talk about in the poor ad.

Rory Stern (11:11):

So will the future pace there, but like, you know, you think about it, what's the outcome, what's the outcome that, that an agency owner wants, you know, full client roster, full calendar, a full schedule. Um, maybe it's the Lamborghini. I mean, I'll, I won't shy. I want to Lambo. I absolutely do. Um, but I'm not going to highlight that on Facebook. So you really want to think about what, what, what story can you tell with your, with your ad image and what emotion can you elicit? And one thing I didn't get to yet, that's really big is you want to be able to think, how can I get the Facebook user to picture themselves in that image? That's psychology right there. How do we project ourselves and go, I want that outcome. That's what I want with me so far. Yeah.

Zach (12:03):

That's all of social media, right? Like, Oh, that guys, I feel like that's what even happened in an advertisement. It's like, it's just like, it's like an entire social media ecosystem is just being jealous of other people's. It's getting worse now too. I mean, I, you know, for the agency ads on the beach or work from home or whatnot, I'm gonna see in screenshots of ad accounts now the Hunter row ads. And I'm just like, what is that going to do, man?

Rory Stern (12:28):

Yeah. Like I, Oh my God, do I, do I see those? And those drive me nuts. Like there's, there's one agency. And I like the creative I'll give them props. I don't know anything about who the owner is and no, I'm not going to name him, but letting him, it's literally a video of 4000% row, 28% row S and I'm like, yeah, no, if you're doing anything at scale and you're a five X row, congratulations. If you're above two X row congratulate funny, it just showed up in my newsfeed as I'm scrolling on my phone. Right.

Zach (13:03):

Gosh, this should be come a roast session right now.

Rory Stern (13:08):

We'll do that. So you really, just, again, you want to think about it. You really want to think about what, what is going to speak to your audience. And in fact, when we frame our ads, I said, we start with the image. I tell my team, I want the image and the headline to be enough, forget all the body copy. I don't care about all that. The body copy is additional selling. Like that's more information for somebody who's on the fence and that's fine, but I want my image and my headline to be so hard hitting that they'll click right there and go over. So, and I'm not talking fancy headlines. Um, our headlines are probably super, super boring. You would look at them and be like, yeah, whatever. Uh, I'm talking how to do this. Not that you want, you want your click? And we haven't even talked about this yet, but we, you know, as we were taught pre you know, pre-roll, we were talking about what makes a rich ad for us is pre-qualifying that click?

Rory Stern (14:15):

I don't want curiosity clicks. I don't care about clicks. I don't care about cost per clicks. I care about leads and I care about sales. So I want that image. And I want that headline to pre-call and then any copy above the body. Copy. That should be further prequalification calling out who my ideal prospect is and repelling the non-ideal. And I promised when I was talking about the image, and then we'll all take a deep breath together that I would talk about the copy. So let's go back to the frustrated agency owner, pulling his hair. It's a decent, a lot of people can relate to it. If you start out your copy with, are you tired, frustrated, sick, and tired. Number one, it's a policy violation. If you think about it psychologically, do you want to talk to somebody who's tired, fed up and frustrated?

Rory Stern (15:07):

No, they're not a good client. They're going to be tired, fed up and frustrated. But if you reframe and talk about the positives of what you can do, so you've got a picture of somebody who's frustrated and you talk about it and you're painting the picture with your words. Imagine if your calendar was full, imagine if Now you're painting that positive. You're getting into the psychology of what you want. And you're able to pre-qualify in my opinion, and we've got data to back it up. You're going to get more qualified click. Hmm. That makes sense. That's so good. I love that, man. All right, man. Let's hear about this poorer. Let's go. Do we roll right into it? I know there's normally a commercial. Are you going to no, no, absolutely. We just keep rolling, man. We're going to go. Joe Rogan style is coming up

Speaker 6 (16:03):

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Rory Stern (17:25):

Brought to you. We go get a joint, then we're going to get high on it. So, all right. So four ads, uh, yeah, this is absolutely my favorite. Again, I don't have poor ads. Uh, I, I love to critique ads. I'll be honest with you, but I'm never going to say this is a poor ad because unless you know the numbers, you just don't know what's going on, but we do have again, a template, a category of what we consider poor ads. Um, and they're definitely contrary to what's being taught in the industry right now. And that is usually a native ad and especially the famous or infamous guru shot. I know people who will say, Oh, but they work. That's awesome. I'm sure you can get them to work. I'm sure you can get them to work for a certain amount of time. I'm sure your I'm sure. Your warm audience, your retargeting audience loves seeing you painting your nails, riding a bicycle. Um, but your cold audience does not care about you again, marketing one Oh one. They don't care who you are now, Zach, you're, you're going back.

Zach (18:31):

Are you agreeing or are you disputing? I'm just bummed. I'm just really bummed. I really was hoping that they would be into it. Uh, I'm not here to pick apart your ads. Um,

Rory Stern (18:43):

I better return that fricking Tesla,

Zach (18:44):

You know, Tesla Teslas are cool.

Rory Stern (18:51):

Like, you know, we were, again, we were talking, pre-roll like, you know, we we've had the opportunity to run some ads for some really, really big names. Some well-known industry thought leaders and to be on brand, they insist use our images so awesome. We got to use your images. That's what we gotta do. And we would run images, cold traffic, and we would have amazing clicks. Amazing. Click-throughs ridiculous signups to webinars where we're trying to sell $2,000 packages and the sales weren't there. And you know, at this point, like normally I can just confidently say, and I'm biased. We'll throw that out there. A biased advertiser go figure. Um, I just don't run them. So I tell people like guru images just, it's not the way to go. But back then before we had the data and to back up the data, you know, we started, we started working with the clients.

Rory Stern (19:50):

Like you need to email the attendees. You need to find out why, you know, what made them show up? Were they interested in the product? Why didn't they buy if they didn't buy? And it was, Oh, I just love so-and-so and I wanted to be on the webinar. Uh, I'm not, I already have the program. Um, I'm not interested in the product. It's too much money. And we quickly found out that, you know, you're not going to get qualified people or I shouldn't say you're not going to let's, let's go back to rich, add or add the right template, the right style, the right frame of mind. We'll bring in the right person, the wrong template, the wrong frame of mind, the raw idea we'll bring in someone highly unqualified. And if you care about vanity metrics, Hey, congratulations. If you can spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to get people on a webinar who don't buy and they sit on your email list for two years and eventually buy that's awesome. I'm totally jealous. Can I put you in situations?

Zach (20:50):

What do you do in situations where it's like, Hey, I've qualified the click, but I can't scale, right? Like I'm spending 30 K a month. This, this is like rampant in the world of info. So we see they've been spending 30 to $50,000 a month for a year. Right. And you know, they get like a decent ROAS, but like the second day they're trying to scale, like their numbers are tanking and there's like this there's the sweet spot, you know, for those folks. And so sometimes what, what needs to happen is you have to change like the entire angle or you have to qualify less in order to spend more. And like, how do you go about

Rory Stern (21:31):

That's a great point and something I completely skipped over because I just love talking about the templates and the different way to bring people in. So the way I like to advertise, um, is it's, it's kind of like just cutthroat, you know, when we're starting out new campaigns, what do people care about? They care about results. They care about sales. So you can go out and attack the marketplace and get those people that respond to that type of ad. As you start to scale, as you start to hit that wall, that ceiling, if you will, that you can't break through, then you have to expand your arsenal and it's not necessarily, Hey, this ad is tired. It's fatigued. It could be. But typically we, we again are, are all about engineering campaigns that will last like enduring campaigns that have longevity. So you now have to think about, you know, these different levels of awareness.

Rory Stern (22:28):

Who are we going after? If my first targeting instinct is to go after people who I know I can pre-qualify and get the click. You're right. It's a small audience. So how do we get that bigger audience? Well, I mean, now you look at your arsenal and go, okay, we've hit 30 to 50 K at scale, we're at five X row. When we try to go past that, it starts to tank you go, all right, I'm going to take X percent of the budget. Um, and hopefully you've done this already. Cause at 30 to 50 K we're talking a day or a month.

Zach (22:58):

A month in the world. Yeah. Yeah.

Rory Stern (23:00):

Still even still. But again, thanks for the reframe. So like you're getting that big, hopefully by then you've started putting out content. You've started putting out videos that you're, you're now building a remarketing audience off of how, you know, what have the people watched and that's going to take time, right? Like that's another, all the rage in the industry right now is, you know, put together this video sequence and retarget them and they're going to buy it. Okay, congratulations. If you get that to work cold, it takes time. You have to build up that audience. You have to love on them. You have to nurture them. You really have to bring them through, you know, the pain and the experience and build that trust. So videos are great. Um, I always just gave a shout out to, uh, in fact, digital marketer the other day.

Rory Stern (23:47):

Um, they were cutting edge on this years and years and years ago, running, um, ads to articles. And based on how long you stayed on that page and read that article, guess what the next ad you saw from them was a lead magnet specifically for that article. And then if you opted in, they had sequencing that went through and brought you into a, what was it? Digital marketing lab or digital marketer lab, um, based on that lead magnet, like, Hey, get this, get this lead magnet or course plus four others. So you have to get more and more sophisticated with your marketing as you start to reach more people. Now,

Dylan (24:27):

Now I have a question for you. You were mentioning this client more or less. They wanted to use their creatives, but whenever you kind of go for your normal routine, do you not want to use the client's creatives or using stock footages or stock photos or videos? I know you mentioned the photos with a thousand words. So I would imagine your photos are pretty direct. Some kind of curious that comes from the client or if it's soccer, how are you kind of

Rory Stern (24:49):

So good, great question. Um, very rarely do we run stock very rarely. Um, unless I find a really strong image and, and I'll be honest, there are times where we'll throw stock up and see how it does. Um, if it does the right story, like, I'll be honest. We, we started with a new supplement client, um, and they're hooked, they're hooked for weight loss, had to do with, um, a certain routine before bed and getting a good night's sleep. I think the first thing we did to test even just the test, the initial copy was I'd probably grab a stock photo of someone laying in bed peacefully, sound asleep. And it wasn't, again, for me, it's easy to say this. Like it wasn't just an average ordinary boring stock photo. There were specific elements to it. Like there were specific coloring, um, colors to it.

Rory Stern (25:43):

There was, you know, we may have jacked up the contrast a little bit. So it stood out in the image, which there's another tip. Usually the first image test we do is full color and gray scale. So black and white photo, you want to see the contrast there? Do people respond more to color because most people post color ads or, you know, do that black and white, that gray scale because it stands out. So that's the bare minimum. And I only do that. If I can find the right photo, most of the time, we're adding elements to it that will visually draw the eye where we want it to go. So I'm talking about things like it could be using a model that is looking in the direction of the call to action on the ad, or maybe it's looking at the webinar title. Um, we incorporate all sorts of elements to the images. A lot of them, we do get stock, not going to lie. We get them stocked, but we do enough manipulation to the images so that they stand out and pop. Um, I wish I could pull up one of the images we use absolutely blew away a control that I'd be so proud to share with you all.

Dylan (26:51):

We can totally pop it in the show notes for later.

Rory Stern (26:53):

Yeah, this is all right. So in the show notes later, this will be fun. We're going to do this. So we had a client who was relying on a guru testimonial to build his brand. And Zach he's talking about exactly what you just brought up. He couldn't get past a certain spend. So we came in, we grabbed a specific stock photo. We added some layers and some themes to it. And, um, we, we put it to the test. He cut his CPA down from I think, $600 per sale to $200 per sale by by guru video.

Rory Stern (27:36):

I may actually show you guys everything. Unfortunately, can't show the audience that, sorry, it's a teaser. But like, there's, there's just so many different psychological things due to an image to really draw somebody in and play at their, again, they're their deep, unconscious or subconscious thoughts. Um, totally fleeting thought. And then we'll get back to what do we do? Um, and this example, one of the things I also love to do, and I've actually wanted to try and play around with it just as a test inside the agency on our own stuff is you guys know what the Rorschach inkblot test is? No, you've never like

Dylan (28:17):

Seen ink laws and stuff, but not the specific tests.

Rory Stern (28:19):

So like the idea behind an inkblot is you show it to somebody and say, all right, what do you see? And sometimes people see a butterfly. Sometimes they see a mouse. Sometimes they see a bat and the psychological principles behind it, which is what we apply to images is that whether you see the bat, is there, the bird is there, the butterfly they're all there, but what you see is based on your mindset and where you're at, if you think about it, like go, I'm sure you've had to have seen the scrolling through Facebook. People will post these images. Like what animal do you see first, the dog, the tiger, the bear. And when you tell them like, yes, I see the bear. It tells you a little bit about your personality. Those tests are for fun and are mostly BS, but there's psychological principles behind it.

Rory Stern (29:11):

And if you can tap into that, and that's what I'm talking about with the, with the good ad template, as I refer to it, if you can tap into that subconscious layer, like your gold. Um, so let's jump back to Zach what you were asking. So, you know, video content, article content, definitely different hooks, definitely different angles. Uh, we were selling magazine subscriptions. Um, we helped the client go from, I think when we took over, it was at like 20,000 or no 12, sorry, 12,000. We took over, they have 12,000 print subscribers. We took them up to, I want to say 35,000 from 12 to 35,000 in a year. And, um, we eventually definitely hit saturation. And what I started thinking about was all right, the first thing we did to improve scale and Rojas, instead of what we normally do, which is like a 30 or 45 day retargeting audience, we started doing sequenced re-targeting.

Rory Stern (30:13):

Um, again, basic information people have heard this. It's not mind blowing. You know, we would do three days. We would do seven days. Excluding three days, we would do 14 days, excluding seven, we would do 30, excluding 14. We would do 45, excluding 30 and so on all the way out to 90 days. And each one of those people got a different message. Um, you know, the, the first, the first ad was wait, did you forget to check out real simple? The next one was something benefit driven. I think after that it was a testimonial. Then the next one after that was more benefit driven. Um, and I think like the last one I refer to as our testimonial orgy ad where literally the body copy is like just 10 testimonials.

Zach (31:02):

Okay. We're changing the topic now let's go to,

Rory Stern (31:06):

I think you should trademark that man into that. Oh boy. Vacations there.

Zach (31:16):

Okay. So that was amazing, really great segue into our, uh, talking about some financial principles when it comes to advertising. And I'm just Dylan, go ahead and try to wipe your mind of testimonial or Jesus

Rory Stern (31:32):

Inserts it right back into the conversation. I may have used an innuendo there intentionally. Oh my God. It's thinking about spreadsheets now. Okay.

Zach (31:44):

So, um, yeah. So talk, talk to us like what is, what is,

Rory Stern (31:52):

Yeah. I mean, it's a pretty open-ended question now.

Zach (31:57):

Did you know what, like you just totally, um, mind screwed right now

Rory Stern (32:02):

For a loop man, here we go. Financial angle, uh, hate ads, right? So the biggest thing for us at our agency that we see over and over and over again, and I'm sure you guys have seen this yourself, small clients, big clients, established businesses, two comma club, X winners, whoever they are throw it all out of your mind. It's all the same problems over and over and over again of financial issues. Number one, not knowing their numbers. Right. We had a client come to us who was like, Hey, my CPA is $14. Um, you know, we're having a hard time when we scale. And for some reason the money that I'm supposed to be making, according to Facebook, the RO, it doesn't match up with the bank account. And I go, all right, let's figure out, like, do you have, do you like, do you really trust Facebook to report your revenue? W well, yeah. Okay. Um, Y how do you do things? Well, I want to pull out of your CRM. I want to know exactly how many sales we made today. Well, you can do that.

Rory Stern (33:16):

Um, and it gets better. And I don't want to make light of the situation. Like this is a serious problem. Feel bad for business owners who go through this, but we also have to get real that, like, if you want to have a business, you have to know your numbers. So we actually went through, and this apparently is very common these days, um, where the business owner had the purchase pixel on the immediate, thank you page, better known as OTO one, as well as three other OTs. So whether they bought or declined, it was still firing a purchase pixel. So guess what? That $14 CPA was actually $45. Well, adds up now to now, we start to see, okay, that's why you're spending more and not seeing what you think you are because it's reporting three times the purchases. So that's, that's a big problem.

Rory Stern (34:06):

And I think it goes into what I told you guys. I wanted to talk about, which is everybody is talking about how easy it is with Facebook ads. Um, I don't, I mean, it's super easy. All you gotta do to triple your sales is just fire the purchase pixel three times. I don't know what all this talk is. And again, like I, I sit down and I think Stuart Smalley and S uh, Saturday night live, you guys familiar with that? Am I aging myself? The guy who used to sit in front of the mirror and go, gosh, darn it. You are smart enough people like you, you got this, like, so I sit down and I go, all these people are talking about two X, 10 X, a hundred X, you know, 5000000% Roe. Like, am I doing something wrong? It's just not realistic.

Rory Stern (34:51):

Like Facebook ads. Yeah. You can do really, really well with them. And there are a lot of people who are doing really well. And there are a lot of people who'd may have five, six, 10 X row S but guess what? They've been running ads for five years and they've dialed in their system. And they've got a phone sales team that is selling big ticket on their back end that they're not telling you about. So I always tell people, especially at the agency level, like my business partner, and I were talking about this earlier today, we try to repel people on sales calls. Like apparently his wife said to him, like, are you purposely trying to lose business? And I'm like, tell me more about that. And it's, you know, we don't want an easy sell. We want you to work through it and understand that paid ads is the most dangerous for any business to go venture.

Rory Stern (35:40):

So if you have no cash flow, no business, you do not want to go on paid ads right away. If you have an offer that is generating money day in and day out through your house list, through organic reach, through affiliate sales. Awesome. Build yourself a nice little bucket that you don't mind throwing out and flushing down the toilet, because that's likely what it's going to take to get your offer working to cold traffic. So if I, Facebook is, and again, I don't want to just say Facebook because we do more like paid media and we start on Facebook, paid traffic is a dangerous place to try and grow and scale. If you don't have financial backing or a really, really strong stomach, and you don't mind getting the wind knocked out of you, cause you're going to, Oh my God.

Zach (36:37):

Gosh. Well, I hope you guys brought your big boy pants today for this podcast episode because this next level, man, I'm like, Yeah. I think everybody just unsubscribed from the rich ed poor at podcast. And they're just like going to fold their accounts and just shut down their budgets after this. So like, thanks. That's good advice. Roy

Speaker 7 (36:57):

Money is I was literally auditing an account yesterday and they're like, yeah, we're making way more money, but it's not showing up on our end. And they have like the actual conversion dyes for view content, add to cart, initiate checkout. I'm like, these are all firing off, you know that right? And they're like, what? I'm like, dude, somebody screwed y'all

Zach (37:15):

You need to come out with a product with ad card and just call it like, um, cash attribution. And it's just going to be like a new bank account for advertisers. And we're just going to show you how much you spend versus how much is is, and we'll just call it ad bank.

Rory Stern (37:29):

Don't get it like numbers are everything. I mean here, here's, here's another funny for instance, with, with financials and numbers, we had a client who, um, you know, a supplement company info product hybrid business. We came on board after I think three other agencies and, um, using our template, it adds wink, wink, nudge, nudge. Um, we th his previous agency, they were spending like two grand a day. We got them up to like 12,000 in a couple months, uh, 12,000 a day at, at profit. And, um, it was really awesome. We were loving it, but what was really scary is, um, the AOV was horrible. So I knew it was only a matter of time before CPA started to creep up. And the client's like, you gotta get the CPA down. You got to get the CPA down and I'm like, your AOV needs to go up. Your AOV needs to go up. It's not, you it's me. It sounds like my junior high dating relationships. Don't, don't worry about AOB. We got this and I go, all right, what's this? We got this what's what's upsell one converting at Zach. Dylan. What should an OTO convert at conservatively? Does he has one? Yeah, he has one. So what, what's a decent number.

Zach (38:46):

Oh, like, Oh, like, I mean, like, I wouldn't keep it unless it's like at least converting with 5% or 10% of it.

Rory Stern (38:54):

Yeah. 2%. I'm like, dude, can, if you just double OTO one we're off to the races then no, just get my CPA down. What kind of AOV

Zach (39:10):

Is it like 25 or 30 bucks. I'm kind of curious.

Rory Stern (39:17):


Zach (39:17):

Let's see. Our CPA

Rory Stern (39:18):

Hovered between at, uh, you know, good days. It was 23 bad days and break even I think was 37 39. So figure his AOV was like 41 and I included a front end offer and a bump. I love that. That's amazing. That sounds like a winner client right there. Roy

Zach (39:40):

Amazing, man. This has been awesome episode and tell everybody how we can support you in what you do.

Rory Stern (39:47):

Um, 5% just, uh, hold on. I've got to go from me where you can help pay for my Lamborghini that I need go fund. Everybody would be.

Zach (40:04):

I think you're confusing. I think that's called GoFund yourself.

Rory Stern (40:07):

Uh, I'd like it to be, but now I'm honestly like, you know, if, if you're spending 50 to a hundred thousand dollars a month and you want an agency to help you grow, not just on Facebook, but on various Google platforms, then I would say hit us CA can I give that shout outs as you just

Zach (40:29):

Did, bro. And I love it. It's

Rory Stern (40:31):

A great domain. I love you. I say, can you, because literally you have editing powers and you can be like, no, bro, that's way too much self promotion. You're not, this is not. I get to be Zuckerberg here. This is not compliant.

Zach (40:48):

I've always wanted to have this power. No dude. It's, it's totally good. We're all advertisers here. We love to advertise advertisers. This is not, we're not going to try to pretend like we're,

Rory Stern (40:59):

But we don't kill people. Okay. This is if somebody, somebody can

Zach (41:04):

Come on here and they were like, yeah, I'm an advertiser. But he's like, I got nothing

Rory Stern (41:07):

And advertise. I'm like that doesn't sound right. Know he was an affiliate. He's like, he was an affiliate. And

Zach (41:14):

Uh, sorry for this like random story here.

Rory Stern (41:17):

He was an affiliate and he says,

Zach (41:19):

Hey, can I sign up to be an affiliate for ad

Rory Stern (41:21):

Card? Um, and he's like, but I don't want

Zach (41:25):

To actually like illicit advertising.

Rory Stern (41:28):

If my, you know, the people that I want to refer this to like are interested. And I was like, you're

Zach (41:34):

An affiliate. Like that's literally what affiliates do is they list that advertising, but you want to sign up. And I told him, I was like, that's like, you want him to be in the mob, but not try to kill people. Uh, you mentioned that twice. Is that an option right now? Options. And I joined, Oh, you want to join my mob? Is that what you're saying? No. This took a left turn. Rory, thank you so much, man. Help with This has been fun. I love how animated you are when it comes to row. I love how you say row too. You can say it with me. I'm such a child. Oh my gosh. All right, man. We'll have you on again.

Speaker 6 (42:16):

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. [inaudible] thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich dad, poor dad podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich ed [inaudible] dot com slash podcast. And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or ed book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for to leave a review that are rich ed or Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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