How To Create A High Ticket Webinar Funnel That Generates 4x with Joel

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Joel Erway


Joel Erway


Head Honcho

The Webinar Agency
Apple PodcastsGoogle PodcastsLive on SpotifyLive on Youtube

Joel is the head honcho at The Webinar Agency. They help digital marketers semi-retire with high ticket courses.

Episode Summary


  • Ever wonder what it takes to have a high converting webinar for high ticket offers? Well good news for you! Joel is the head honcho at The Webinar Agency who focuses on webinars for their clients.
  • With multiple of his clients generating well over a 4x return, this one is one you DON'T want to miss!




Zach (00:00):

In this episode, Joel Erway breaks down his power offer ad campaigns and how his clients are routinely getting 400 to 600% return on ad spend selling high ticket courses, consulting and services. Plus you'll also hear about Joel's early days and how he thinks about bootstrapping his business, paying himself first and really funding the growth of his business. It's a great episode enjoying.

Joel (00:26):

So we have somebody, um, her name is Carlina. Who's absolutely crushing it. And she's acquiring customers for, I want to say it's like 20 or 30 bucks. Your program is three to $4,000. It's absolutely bonkers.

Intro (00:51):


Zach (00:52):

Listening to the rich and poor ed podcast where we break down the financial principles that rich advertisers are deploying today to turn advertising into profit and get tons of traffic to their websites without killing their cash. These advertisers agencies, affiliates brands are responsible for managing over a billion dollars a year in ad spend. You'll hear about what's working for them today. They're rich ads and we'll roast their Epic failures and crappy ads on the internet with core ads. Let's get into it. Welcome to another episode of the rich ed. Poor ed podcast is your host, Zach Johnson. I'm with the one and only DC Dylan Carpenter. How are you doing today, Dylan? Good man. Good excited for this one right here. Yeah, man, today's guest is, uh, he's been around, uh, the info marketing and an expert marketing space for quite some time. I think he's become most known, uh, for his, uh, power offer, um, and really training a lot of, uh, folks that sell via webinars and books and courses, uh, really about what a power offer is and how to really make that work with ads.

Zach (01:59):

Uh, but he's also the host of two awesome. Uh, podcasts. One is called experts unleash. Uh, the other one is sold with webinars. Um, he actually got, uh, his, I would say his, you know, his first claim to fame before, uh, really talking about power offers was really around, uh, just breaking down webinar scripts and webinars presentations, uh, to like the 10th degree. It's like, it's like a Russell over click funnels, like gave everybody like the high level formula. Uh, and then, you know, today's gas basically just broke that down to be even more nuanced and more formulaic, but he's also getting his clients a ton of results, um, you know, safe to say, uh, probably 50 million to a hundred million in terms of overall client revenue that, uh, that he's been able to help drive and eight figures in ad spend. Um, so I'm excited to have in, uh, uh, today's guests, because I think it's also somebody that will be interesting, you know, for the agencies in our audience that, um, you know, to their, to really hear about today's guest, his journey going from agency owner and, and really, uh, being a slave to client demands to then how he's automated that entire business for the most part and allowed him to start building a strong consulting business, delivering on his own high ticket courses and helping other people build out high ticket courses.

Zach (03:33):

So it's an awesome, uh, it's an awesome story. Uh, so what do you think, should we, should we actually bring them on the show? Let's do you think he can live up to the site? I don't know. All right, man. Joel, Erway how you doing? Welcome to the show up fellows.

Joel (03:51):

Great to be here. Yeah, man, I,

Zach (03:53):

Uh, I'm excited to dive into it. Give everybody a little bit of a backstory in terms of, uh, how you got here and what you're up to right now.

Joel (04:04):

Cool. Well, you guys gave me a pretty good, uh, pretty good synopsis of my, my journey. Uh, it started out in this game as you know, the webinar guy, whether that was self-proclaimed or, uh, given, given to me from, from other people. But that was, uh, that was how I really got started in the, in the digital marketing game. So we run a company called the webinar agency, still run it to this day. We're still doing webinars for clients and we do things called, uh, webinars and mini webinars. Um, and, uh, really we are helping course creators and coaches and consultants, uh, get their presence online, launch high ticket courses, enroll, um, you know, enroll clients and, and, and grow their business online. That's our kind of, um, that's our stick. And so, uh, you know, over the past, you know, six months to a year, we've been, uh, leveraging some pretty cool mechanisms that we call power offers in many webinars. And it seems like, uh, both of those have really caught in fire over the past year to year and a half. And, uh, I'm excited to kind of talk about what's, what's working now with ads and what's not working and open book. So, uh, I love, I love sharing this,

Zach (05:19):

You know, for, for everyone who's listening to this episode, diving into this rich ad is going to be super relevant. If you are selling high ticket courses, if you're selling a consulting professional services, you know, on the backend and, you know, it's so tempting to get in that space, thinking that you have to have this trip wire that you have to, you know, be able to liquidate and break even on your traffic on day one. And Joel, you just cut through all that, that noise. So I'm excited to really figure out what's working right now, break down this rich ad for us, uh, for, for all the folks

Joel (05:58):

In this, this arena. Yeah. We'll give you guys a little context as to what we talk about with the power offer. Um, and, and I'll, I'll give the backstory behind this. I'll keep it as short as possible, so we don't lose your audience, but it has, it has relevancy. So back in 2016, I was running, uh, you know, we ran the webinar agency. I was running my own automated webinar to generate clients and generate customers for our done for you services and for a high ticket coaching program. And it was embarrassing because while we were running tons of profitable webinars for our clients, our own automated webinar was the worst performing one. And so I, you know, it was, I believed in the expert's curse, which was, um, you're too close your own product. So I hired out coaches, I hired out consultants to help me out.

Joel (06:54):

And after a year of beating my head against the wall, it was just not working. Our cost per application was like $400 per you know, per booked call, which was not really scalable. We were still making money, but it wasn't, um, it wasn't scalable with paid traffic. So, um, I, we had just moved into a house that was three times. We moved into our dream home. Uh, our son was born and I remember laying in bed one night, staring at the ceiling fan and, uh, and staying awake. It was 11 o'clock at night. And just saying where like, how am I going to get more clients? Like, how am I going to get my next client? And I had to keep going through everything that we had that we had done. We had tried and nothing was working. And so I was reading a book called uh, how to create an irresistible offer by Bob Bly.

Joel (07:41):

And Bob Bly talked about this simple customer acquisition chart. And he basically said, the more direct you are in your copy, the less your cost per customer acquisition. And now Bob is, uh, Bob is very smart and his copywriting, um, is not as simple as that. And so like the title of that chart is like, you know, brand degradation as content marketing increases, or I can't remember what it is, but essentially what it was saying was the more offer driven your content, the lower your cost per customer acquisition, the more brand driven your content, the higher your cost per acquisition. And this was the big light bulb moment for me, because what I was trying to do with my ads and with my funnel was I was trying to get more done for you clients and also sell our group coaching program. And I'm like, you know what?

Joel (08:35):

I am probably over educating my market by pushing them through a long form webinar. I would be willing to bet that there's probably people out there who already know about webinars and, uh, and want help with their webinars if I just made them an offer. And so I had never so sure of something in my entire life, like after I saw that chart, I'm like, this is the problem. Like, this is exactly what I'm struggling with. I've ran downstairs. I typed up an ad, which is, which was now the first version of what we call power offer ads. And I hit publish. I published that ad and I said, I'm not going to check the stats until I wake up in the morning and we'll see what happens. But by the time I woke up, I had a flood of applications. I was now paying between 30 to 40 bucks per application instead of, uh, the $400 per application I was paying. And so that was kind of the Genesis of the power offer ad. And, uh, it was really a game changer for me. And then we started to test it with some of my clients, and then we started getting amazing results for them. And this was going all from an ad straight to a high ticket offer. And, uh, and you know, kind of the rest is history, but that was really the Genesis of the power offer ad.

Zach (09:52):

That's pretty darn interesting there, and it's a good concept, but super catchy I'm into it. Like, shoot, just cut through the noise, man, just get straight to it. So like, how does this work for, you know, in terms of some of these higher price points, right? Like w what do you sell on the, on the back end of that and offer me this, this, this, this go for like a five, 10, $20,000 price point.

Joel (10:16):

Yeah. We've done them for as high as $30,000. Um, you know, so the power offer ad is kind of like the, the first part of it. And the second part is the mini webinar. And so these are hyper condensed, um, slightly educational, but mostly offer driven, uh, pieces of, of content that you use to attract your high value prospects. Because the number one thing that people value that are willing to spend money is their time. You know, people who value their time over money, that's our target prospect. And that's why we use many webinars to attract them. So when we're going after high ticket buyers, we need to align our customer acquisition system and our marketing system. I shouldn't even really say it's a marketing system. It's more of a sales funnel and to align with those types of prospects. And so our high value buyers value their time more than anything.

Joel (11:07):

So we need a shorter presentation, a basically give them the need to know information, to make a yes or no buying decision and make sure everything is framed as, Hey, I've got an offer for you. It's this is not an educational based funnel. This is I'm making an offer click here to learn more, and then we're going to have a conversation, whether or not, you know, you want to take action. So, um, we lead with the power offer, send them to a mini webinar, and then you have a, you have a sales conversation at that point. And, um, you know, a couple of weeks ago, I, I took seven of our clients' funnels inside of our high ticket courses, mentorship program. I took seven of their funnels and I said, send me all of your stats. I want to know everything that's going on in your funnel.

Joel (11:50):

I'm going to break it all down. And these people were everything from, you know, $2,000 offers to five to $10,000 offers. And what was amazing was we had, I think three of the clients had a customer acquisition cost of like under $150 for these high ticket buyers. Um, and, uh, you know, I think every all, but one had under a thousand dollar customer acquisition cost, and the other one had kind of a broken funnel, but six out of the seven had a, had a very, very good customer acquisition cost for programs that are selling for minimum of 5k. So, um, it's allowed people to cut through the noise, people who have been, um, educated and, and, and told to do all these complex marketing funnels and lead magnets and trip wires to, to sell their course. And yes, all of those things do work, but the vast majority of people who are starting up and who are just launching, like you need to validate your offer first, that's the single most important thing that you've got to validate. And so that was the that's, that's how we've gained such a pretty loyal following over the past couple of years is it's talking about this concept.

Zach (12:58):

I feel like the, this is great for somebody that, you know, spending five, 10, 15 K a month, right. Because you know, you're getting right to the heart of your prospective clients. Um, talk to us about some of the ROI that these folks are seeing, you know, on relatively decent budgets. Right. But it's not like this crazy level of scale wherever everybody's just trying to break even, or, you know, put a dollar in, get $2 out. So I'd, I'd imagine the ROI here is, is pretty amazing with this. Yeah.

Joel (13:34):

So if a Reverend who's listening right now, I'm assuming you're probably more affluent marketer if you're, if you're, um, if you're listening, so I'll give you the nitty-gritty like, I'll give you the down and dirty when we are launching these, uh, our target audience. So people who are launching power offers are people who are validating new offers, right? I'm not trying to break the rules of marketing here. I'm just trying to get people to realize that you have to take the right steps in order. So at some point you are going to need to do more branding. Okay. So your direct offer ads are going to have a limit on scale. Um, so when you do power offer ads, we have two things called. We have the direct that the short form power offer at. And then we have expanded power offer ads. When we launch new programs, we are looking for bare minimum of four X return on ad spend, right?

Joel (14:25):

I'm selling these high ticket programs with power offer ads. The range of which we've seen are unbelievably. Um, it, it's a, it's an unbelievable wide net. So we have somebody, um, her name is Carlina, who is absolutely crushing it. Uh, and she is acquiring customers for, I want to say it's like 20 or 30 bucks and her program is three to $4,000. It's absolutely. Um, we also have a guy Nick Coleman, who is acquiring at that rate as well. And so he's selling a, I want to say it's a $5,000 fitness program and he's acquiring customers for 30 bucks. So that's on like the unbelievable scale. Like you can't even fathom those numbers. The vast majority of our clients are in the like four to six X return on ad spend. Right? And so we launched these power offers. This is kind of like phase one to validate your offer, like, get those customers, get the people like those two to 3% of your market.

Joel (15:23):

That's ready to make a buying decision now and get it in their face. Like just say, listen, here's what I'm promising you. Here's what we can do. Here's a little bit about my process. If this makes sense, let's hop on a call and let's do it. Now, you can take this to 10, to probably 30 to $50,000 per month. But at some point you are going to need to, um, you're going to need to need to take the next step and start doing a little bit more brand building audience, building list, building and educating that market to, who's not ready to buy right now, but getting to 10, 20, 30, $40,000 a month, we've seen time and time again. You can get there. You can get to that first level just by doing power offers, just by getting your offer, making more offers to as ma making offers to as many people as possible.

Joel (16:09):

So, um, that's kind of like what we like to tell people. It's like, we don't want them to come in. The expectation of, I can only do power offers. It's like, no, this is your first stage to get your idea off the ground and start getting cash as fast as possible, then going to like scale down your value ladder, right? If you want to do tripwires, if you want to do low ticket offers, like you can absolutely do that, but don't do that first because it's going to it like your offers and low ticket funnels are not for the faint of heart. They require a lot of work and, uh, and they do require an ad budget and, and marketing expertise.

Zach (16:45):

Oh my gosh, I love this. I mean, I don't know anybody else. That's getting that kind of row as a, for that little of level spins. So

Joel (16:53):

Let's to be very clear, it is going to heavily depend on your market. Right? So one of our conversations we were having before this Zack was, you know, I'm in a very, very competitive niche right now, the course creator niche, right? Our ads for this niche have gotten increasingly more difficult to be successful in because now, number one, we see so many people who are just ripping off my ads and they're going after course creators trying to take my ad copy. And so like, of course the best marketers are going to are going to be successful. So we'll, we'll find ways to do, uh, to make it work. But it's just a very competitive nature. So if you're going into a competitive niche, like it's, it's almost like a double-edged sword. Like you have to get your offer crystal clear because your offer is what's going to separate you from everybody else.

Joel (17:38):

And, um, you know, it's, uh, it might be a little bit more competitive, but if you, if you're in a group like a completely blue ocean, like Carvana, she's helping people, um, land, government contracts, like six-figure government contracts. I don't see anybody else advertising that. And, uh, she's just absolutely freaking crushing it. And her story's amazing because she was taking the opposite approach beforehand. She was trying to build a very, very large list and doing all these lead magnets, all this other stuff, which wasn't necessary for her, like she needed to just get her offer out in front of people. And once she did that, like she's been running her stuff for like six months now. And she's absolutely just crushing it. So if you're in an, if you are in a blue market, completely like blue ocean market, like man, how our operas will absolutely freaking crush it,

Speaker 4 (18:28):

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Speaker 4 (19:18):

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Joel (20:12):

So we, um, so as I mentioned before, I'm not trying to rewrite the rule book on marketing. Like we're just putting it in the right order. And so we're at a stage right now in our company where we do have low ticket offers to fill out our value ladder. So the rich and poor ad that has sent you guys are actually a version of our power offer that we're running for our power offer workshop, ironically, but it's a version of our power offer ad. Um, that's doing well. They're both actually doing, um, the two that we're sharing are actually converting very well, but what will be interesting to talk about is average order value between the two. So, uh, the, we have a very, uh, short form, direct power offer ad that's, um, that's converting well, and it has been, has been converting well. And do you guys want me to read the ad?

Joel (20:59):

Like, how do you want me to do this? Yeah, I want it let's let's do it. So this one is, um, is this our short form power offer ad for the power offer workshops? So it says they used to pay 300 to $400 for book calls. Now I pay 30 to 40 bucks and it's all because of the power offer. Right? And lucky for you. I recently held a three hour in-depth training detailing exactly how to structure and implement this one to two sentences power offer to generate clients on demand. Um, the results people are getting from the training are extraordinary. One student generated $20,000 in new sales and then 48 hours. Another person generated over 300 leads and $17,000 in revenue in less than a week. This simple power offer has revolutionized the online marketing game forever. And at 37 bucks, the power up for workshop is the highest ROI investment anyone can make in their business.

Joel (21:41):

Get it now before the price goes up. Um, so that's our short form ad that is, is pretty direct now, uh, when we first launched that it was doing, it was doing well right out of the gate and, um, it still is converting. Uh, but we were getting, I think cost per sale was around 50 or 60 bucks when we first started that this has now crept up to maybe around, I don't know, 70 or 80. Um, but what's interesting is, and I wish I could like be exact with this, but, um, we installed some tracking software that was supposed to help improve our ads, but it actually broke our entire funnel. So, um, our tracking isn't necessarily the best. So I've just been kind of monitoring this on a day-to-day basis. But whenever I see sales come in through this ad, I'm seeing them take much they're, they're taking action on, um, more of our upsells.

Joel (22:37):

So for the past, like two weeks, we could have two weeks. Our average order value for this funnel has been like $110, which is fantastic. Like I'm really, really happy about that. Um, you know, Zach, I don't know if you have more data on, you know, what average order value is typically for these types of funnels, but yeah, from people that I'm talking to in this space, you know, put a hundred dollars is doing really, really well. Uh, and so we, we are seeing a much higher uptake on, um, on the upsells with this ad. So the one that's very direct, here's the price click here to learn more and go buy it right there. It's higher average order value. We then have a longer one, which I'm not going to read the entire thing here cause it's, it's rather lengthy. So we go to a story-based ad that the general theme is talking about my lifestyle, right?

Joel (23:29):

It's um, I work four days a week, four hours a day. That's my, that's my deal. Right? And so we kind of had this, this ad that my copywriter wrote that talks about how I'm not one of those 4:00 AM hustlers, right. And it talks about my family. It talks about, um, everything about my lifestyle and my work week. And so it leads into the power offer. And so it's more story-based and we're seeing a lower cost per acquisition on this ad. And I'm guessing it's probably going to have a higher, low, a longer, low, um, a better longevity. Uh, so we're seeing a lower cost per acquisition, but also a, um, a lower average order value. I wish I could tell you exactly what the average order value is, but, um, I do monitor these ads daily and when I see ads get triggered from or purchase to get triggered from this ad, I'm just noticing that they're usually not taking any of the upsells. Sometimes they take the bump, but, um, we're definitely seeing a lower average order value with this one. So, uh, yeah, that's, those are kind of our interests to rich ads that are, that are converting right now.

Zach (24:33):

Nice. That's cool, man. Well, onto this last segment, Joel, we're all about, uh, helping recovering marketers, uh, move away from marketer math and, uh, and help them stop rounding up to the nearest million. So what kind of financial principle or tip, um, advice you could share as you know, you've gone from, you know, bootstrapping your business at startup to, um, you know, now building a great income for you and your family. How have you thought about, uh, investing in the marketing, paying yourself, uh, reinvesting in the business, uh, and also reinvesting it into marketing. What are, what are some things that you could share with, with the audience?

Joel (25:17):

So ever since I've launched. So ever since I got into this game back in 2014, 2015, I've always spent money on paid ads, always. Um, I've just been a big believer of getting my message out there as often as possible. I mean, my, my thinking around investing into paid ads and paid marketing has changed a bit. It's gotten more holistic, whereas like before I really wanted to get an ROI as fast as possible. Now we're doing more, we are doing some retargeting and some just brand content ads. And, um, I'm going to be talking about that as I get more data, but like we're spending a lot more on, on brand driven stuff along with our power offers and our direct, you know, direct to purchase. But now we're building a more holistic marketing approach. I just want to reiterate, even though, um, I'm known as like that power offer guy, like I'm not trying to rewrite the rule book on marketing.

Joel (26:05):

So I do do other types of ads as well. So when you see stuff that's out there and it's not a power offer, don't call me a hypocrite. So I'm just trying to be very upfront transparent that it's, there's an order for everything. So it's one tool in the tool belt. Exactly, exactly. So, um, I'm only saying that because I have been called a hypocrite and so that's why every time I go and talk about, I just make sure people understand what my, my beliefs are. Um, so a financial principle that we have a by the, by has, you know, back in, I'd say 2014, 2015, when I first launched, I was in this mastermind with, um, with a fellow business owner and, uh, you know, we're, we're starting our own, our own businesses. And, and, uh, after the first six months I wasn't paying myself at all.

Joel (26:49):

I was reinvesting everything into the business. Now, mind you, I was hardly making anything we're talking like maybe over six months I made like five or six grand in the business. So like revenue. Right. So, um, uh, you know, so I was talking to my buddy Jay, and he's like, okay, you know, we're on one of our calls is like, well, how much are you paying yourself? Like, dude, I'm not paying myself anything. Like, I'm not making any money. He's like, dude, that's a huge mistake. It's a huge mistake. And one of the things that he told me that day, he goes, I don't care how much you're making, but you have to make sure that you're paying yourself every single week or month. Like you're always paying yourself because, um, you're setting this precedent that your not important that your core values are not important and that your business is more important than your life.

Joel (27:32):

And it just, it made it, you know, it just hit me that day and I'm like, all right, Jay, that makes, that makes sense. So from that point on, I started out paying myself like either five or 10% of all the sales that I brought in. I just put it into, um, I put it into my bank account. I can't remember exactly how he did it, but I pay myself 10%, every single, um, every single sale. And it wasn't much, I mean, you know, we're making a couple hundred bucks a month at most, you know, I was living off of savings at that point. But from almost immediately when I started doing that, my revenue started going up and I started paying myself more and I started paying myself more. Then finally, I got to a point where I could pay myself like a flat, um, yearly salary.

Joel (28:10):

I P I probably started paying myself. I don't know, 20 grand maybe a year, or maybe it was, you know, a few thousand dollars a month, but it quickly kept going up. And every time that I would give myself a raise and I tell my accountant to like, okay, but my pay revenues went up accordingly. And so we've, we've held this principle every single, uh, you know, now we've, we've gotten to a point where I'm not going to pay myself a higher salary. We pay our, my wife and I pay ourselves, I think, um, combined a hundred thousand dollars per year. So I think it's like, I make 60, she makes 40 something like that. I can't remember exactly what it is, but combined her salary is a hundred grand and we don't need, that's actually more than enough. Like we don't need any more than that.

Joel (28:53):

And so now we're investing, like we make other financial commitments, so we just did whole life insurance. So we're doing a $50,000 a year policy. So, um, we have set that aside, right. And our income keeps going up. And so this principle of always paying yourself first has led to exponential growth. Um, you know, I think it's, I think it's, maybe it's Parkinson's law that says the, um, God, I'm going to butcher this, but it's basically, you know, however amount of time that you give yourself, like, you're always going to fill it with something like that, whatever you create, it's going to, it's going to be filled with something. And I think there's some sort of relativity with that, with, with what we're talking about here. Um, probably smarter minds can that together or smarter minds can say, Joel, you're a piece, you know, like you're an idiot

Zach (29:45):

Waste, right? There's just so much waste of investing. And I'm guilty of this as well, investing in so many things that don't move the needle in profit, or really even, even in revenue, right. There are all things that we think that moved the needle and there's, you know, a lot of times, and there's no correlation, uh, between a lot of the stuff that sucks the profit out of the business. So well, that's awesome, man. Thank you so much for being so open and sharing about those awkward, like early days. And, um, I think that's really encouraging, you know, for some of the early folks, you know, that are just getting started and thinking about how to, how to pay themselves first. So I've got a couple of questions for you as we wrap up just a little bit of rapid fire here, but what do you, what, what, what's your opinion on a bootstrapped VC or debt in terms of funding growth?

Joel (30:42):

Oh, man. Um, good question. I'm probably not equipped to talk about VC, but, um, you know, it, cause it's a different mentality, different mindset, and I just don't have experience with it, but, um, there's pros and cons to both. I see the benefits to, to each, but for me, I just, I can't, I can't envision myself answering to anybody else and I feel like that

Zach (31:07):

It tends to have no. What about debt versus bootstrap? Have you ever, you ever leveraged debt to grow or are you just Mr. Bootstrap through and through

Joel (31:15):

Mostly I've been Mr. Bootstrap to be honest. So, I mean the first major investment that we did into the business was, um, I, I paid Russell Brunson 10 grand when he first launched click funnels to join one of his coaching programs. Um, and we put that on our credit card, but actually I came and said there was debt because we had money, we had savings to pay it off. So, um, we, I, I put myself in a, my wife and I to, I don't want to take full credit cause it was actually, um, mainly driven from Mary Jo. She put us in a really good position, uh, to be able to do these types of things. She knew that I wanted to go into entrepreneurship. I wanted to start my own business. And, uh, when we first started dating and we first got married, um, we set up our accounts and we set up a budget.

Joel (32:02):

Um, and I paid off all my debt. I had 50 grand in student loans. Um, when I graduated college and I paid that off within two to three years, most. Yeah. And that was before I got into entrepreneurship that was working a job where I made 40 grand a year. And then I made a bonus on, on commissions. So I wasn't making a ton of money. Um, I put every cent that I earned from my commissions plus some to pay off my student loans. And, um, and we kept saving and Mary Jo was very diligent about, about, um, making sure that we're putting money away every single month. And I was very diligent about paying off that debt as fast as freaking possible. So, um, you know, I wish I could tell you that, like I'm all for going into debt, but I've never really, aside from my, my college education, I've never really gone into debt.

Zach (32:54):

There you go. Joel. Erway Mr. Bootstrap. All right. Here's the next one? Here's the next one? Is it you care about on, on the credit cards at the rubric Reddit

Joel (33:04):

Points or don't care? So we have a, um, we have a charge card from American express that I run pretty much the entire business off of. So we pay that off every single month. So, um, I guess that would be credit or charge. I dunno, how, how you would label it,

Zach (33:21):

Uh, any of the points or do

Joel (33:23):

Care about it. I don't go crazy over it. Like I don't try and maximize my points. Um, there's some stuff.

Zach (33:30):

Yeah. So he's basically just, you really don't care. You just like throw it off

Joel (33:35):

Probably should. I'm pro I'm, I'm sure I'm missing out on a lot of benefits, but um, I just try to keep life as simple as possible. And um, I've, I've gone into, I've gone down the rabbit hole of trying to like learn travel, hacking, and point hacking and all that stuff. And it just be in my mind hurts

Zach (33:52):

Working in a pandemic doesn't work know. Oh Joel, you've been an amazing guest. Thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it.

Joel (34:00):

I provided, I hope I provided for you guys. I mean, financial side. I don't know if I'm your worst guest cause I don't really,

Zach (34:09):

That's great. I think you're, you're, you'll be probably one of the hall of Famers in terms of highest row as, um, those are some pretty, pretty awesome numbers. Tell em, tell everybody a little bit about what you got going on next. What you're excited about.

Joel (34:23):

You can get in touch. Yeah. So what I'm excited about, we are growing our own coaching program for high ticket courses. So if anybody wants to learn how to leverage power offers for their own, um, course or coaching program, you can go to Joel, check out all my branded stuff there, or go to high ticket and you can check out all the content there or just go check on my podcast, man. I love podcasting. I have two podcasts myself sold with webinars and experts unleashed what you already mentioned, but those are the, uh, those are the spots you can go check me out

Zach (34:54):

There. You have it. Thank you so much. Yep. You got man. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich add more ed podcast. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on Apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add for ed book to learn more about the book. Go to rich ed for to leave a review that a rich ad for Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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