How the Data Scientist behind Tatari.TV is Able to Spend $100m+ Every Year on TV ADS

Zach Johnson

Dylan Carpenter

Skyler Logsdon


Skyler Logsdon



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Employee #1 at Tatari. It makes me so proud to see us grow like wildfire. 140+ employees (mostly data scientists & engineers), 3 offices (SF, LA, NYC), 200+ clients, and we've done it all with our own profits. So much more to come.

Episode Summary


  • How TV Tracking has become a leading competitor to digital ads
  • The types of budgets to use when coming up with a plan to start TV ads
  • The crazy truth of tracking true revenue brought in from TV ads




Skyler (00:00):

Really, uh, tele-health there are so many tele-health disruptor banks. Some of them go to Facebook and Google and they're like, it's so competitive in there. And my category, well, I don't, I can't afford to keep acquiring customers in Facebook. And that could be in the early days, they just raised some seed money. Maybe they're spending a hundred K per month on Facebook, along with, I need to get off of Facebook. I can't scale. So they come to TD way earlier where another brand let's say gaming can ride scale to a hundred million dollar plus on Facebook and it still works like a charm. So there's not like this magic number, like, oh, in general, across all brands. It really depends on the category. And how competitive bids and Vishal for you.

Speaker 2 (00:55):


Carson (00:57):

On this episode of the rich add poor add podcast, we have Skylar Logston employee. Number one over at tuttare learn how to tare spends over $100 million a year on TV advertisements. Skyler's going to share how TV tracking has become a leading competitor to digital ads. And also you'll learn the types of budgets to use when coming up with a plan to start TV ads. And my favorite part is how you'll learn the crazy truth of tracking revenue in TV ads. No, go ahead, grab some popcorn and sit back, relax and enjoy the show. But before we begin to head over to, if you are a media buyer or agency owner, wanting to learn how you can scale your ads and get cash back while doing so that's a funnel without further ado. Here are your hosts, Zach Johnson can Dylan Carpenter. Welcome.

Zach (02:04):

Welcome to another episode of the rich ed for ed podcast is your host sack Johnson. Dylan. He ready to talk about some TV advertising today?

Dylan (02:12):

Oh yeah, man. I got billions of questions. It's going to be a good one.

Zach (02:16):

Oh, I like it. Well, today's guest is a new one, you know, it's we, I don't think we've had anybody on the show talking about TV advertising, so I'm excited to get into it. These guys manage hundreds of millions of dollars a year, um, in, uh, in TV, which I know absolutely nothing about mostly just that I like super bowl commercials. Um, but, uh, today's guest is Skylar Logston, who was the first employee at, uh, tuttare and a to tare is the, uh, marketing and advertising, um, measurement company, analytics company, data company. I mean, these guys are all, uh, data nerds, um, and bringing the pretty much kind of the world of let's say, although the world of analytics and attribution that you'd get normally from digital and they're bringing it all the way online, uh, to the world of TV. So their clients spend anywhere from a hundred thousand all the way up to 75 million a year, uh, on TV. And, um, yeah, I'm excited to get into it. Skylar, welcome to the show.

Skyler (03:27):

Zach Dylan, thank you for having me. It's a honor to be on excited to meet you both and to chat really looking forward to it,

Zach (03:36):

Sir. Yes, sir. All right, man. So tell everybody, uh, what is, uh, tuttare and how are you guys? Absolutely just crushing it right now.

Skyler (03:47):

Yeah. So in short, uh, to Tara is a data and analytics company. We focused solely on the buying and the measurement of cable, TV, and streaming TV. Uh, I think how we've had our success over the past five years, this we gave the, the modern day CMO, uh, it's TV experience that they're looking for. So you may know TV historically has kind of been spray and pray. It's been for Chevron for target, for Geico. They have these big brand budgets and they give them to their traditional media agency. And that agency can just rip the money with all their best buddies in the networks. And so that kind of story could work for some brands, but there was a lot of brands that were sidelined of like, Hey, that doesn't sound interesting. That doesn't sound compelling. I need to know what is going on every single dollar.

Skyler (04:35):

So the modern day CMO typically doesn't come out of Chevron or Geico or target. They typically were at brands that started out spending money on Facebook and Google. And once they max out Facebook and Google, they want to find the next place for growth. They'll go to tick TOK, they'll go to snap. So there are podcasts, billboards, direct mail, but everything they test, they have these digital expectations because Facebook and Google is all they know. So they want to know that cost per visitor. They want to know their cap. They want to test small. They want to be able to scale big if it works and that just wasn't there five years ago. And so we started the company with a big ambition of make TV, feel like the show, allow brands to do that. Test small David reporting, let them scale big and don't make TV such a big brand privilege. It shouldn't be only for Geico and Chevron for target. You should be able to hop on and test TV with a smaller budget. So that's what we did fast forward positive with about 175 employees, uh, across San Francisco, Santa Monica, New York, 200 brands, uh, that are growing fast. Uh, as I mentioned earlier, in all stages, small startups, public companies, the big giants, um, yeah, that is to target in a nutshell

Zach (05:56):

Is amazing. I love it. How, uh, what is the ROAS target of TV, right? Like, uh, is it the same? Is it kind of the same as digital? Like everybody just is happy to get 200% ROAS or is it just like, uh, are you, or is everyone just happy to get like 1% positive rate on TV? I don't know.

Skyler (06:15):

That's a great question. Um, so I would say that Facebook and Google are our biggest competitors and that may be surprising for you when you first hear that. But then give me a second to explain. Yes, we have to beat off the old traditional media agency is like, Hey, don't go spray your money with them. Like you want to know what's going on with the money, right? So they come to this Atari, once they're in with us, the marketer is just looking for where is the most efficient places for my next ad dollar should Facebook get 80% of my budget should TV should take talk, should Twitter should Pinterest. It's all an opportunity cost of the dollar. Where is this dollar going to get more money back? So we compete with Facebook and Google every single week when ad budgets are on ad efficiency for the dollar, should manscape set, spend X amount with Facebook next week?

Skyler (07:12):

Or should we get more of that budget because we're spending back a better real. Now there's other benefits to TV. Yes. We signaled prestigious. She asked, we gain trust on like Facebook and the Google lab. Uh, yes, people will think that manscaped is a massive, massive company, which they are growing super, super fast. But just because you see that TV ad, you signal this prestige because you ran in between Chevron and target, there was a manscaped bag right in between it and people are going to assume, wow, manscape must be a massive company just because they ran in close proximity to those other brands on a national TV spot or

Zach (07:50):

String. Let's talk, let's talk about this for a second. So if I want her to do a, uh, a TV commercials, uh, geo-targeted at devices within a, let's say Sandhill road of Silicon valley for a $30 million race. Uh, can we get that granular with TV? Or is that like, um, like how

Skyler (08:13):

Granular can you go? Yeah. So TV's targeting, you can get very granular, always at the price of the CPM going through. So yes, you can target zips. Yes. You can target interest in psychographics or you have to go programmatic. That's where you can layer in all this extra data for the targeting, but that CPM will start to drift massively. Um, now if you're willing to pay that, you could test it and see what the cap looks like in the bottom of funnel against when you just go CNN or Bloomberg or CNBC at a $3 CPM and you see which one drives me a better CAC or agnostic. I don't care if programmatic works better than cable versus streaming TV, you could pay the $50 CPM that $12 CPM, the $3 CPM. And let's just measure what the cap looks like on a daily basis. And we'll spend more on wherever that calf as best as possible,

Zach (09:09):

But you're saying as possible, like you can get that granular. You can get that granular. All right, Dylan, we'll pay the bill. I'll just tell you what the creative is. You get a build. I do like,

Dylan (09:19):

So you kind of mentioned earlier when somebody maxes out a platform, you know, to then move to TV or tick talk or Snapchat, what kind of budgets do you see? People maxing out on soar? It's like. Maybe it's time to kind of diversify our, you know, acquisition channels essentially. Is it pretty big budgets or I'm kind of curious what you all see over there to make it a big indicator. Like, Hey, it's the prime time for y'all to kind of really test this out.

Skyler (09:42):

It depends on the category and how competitive it is in that category. For example, uh, how many watch ads have you seen on Instagram? How many is really, uh, tele-health there are so many tele-health disruptor banks. Some of them go to Facebook and Google and they're like, it's so competitive in there. And my category will like, I don't, I can't afford to keep acquiring customers and Facebook. And that could be in the early days, they just raised some seed money. Maybe they're spending a hundred K per month on Facebook alone. Like I need to get off of Facebook. I can't scale. So they kind of TV way earlier where another brand let's say gaming can ride scale to a hundred million dollar plus on Facebook and it still works like a charm. So there's not like this magic number where like, oh, in general, like across all brands, it really depends on your category and how competitive is and visual for you.

Dylan (10:36):

That makes sense. Yeah. I was kind of curious. I was like, man, when you mentioned that shoot little max out platforms, I was like, man, there's gotta be some fat budgets, but Hey, it depends on the industry. Cause he had that competitiveness. That'll that'll drive those CPMs with exceptions.

Skyler (10:49):

Yep. Every brand has the marginal cap. What is the last customer you're paying for? What's that number that you're going to stomach and you just fire up a channel until you reach that number and you say, I can't afford to pay any more for a customer. I need to move on to the next channel. TV is different because it scales like a charm, like a mature marketer will easily spend 60, 70% of their marketing budget on TV at scale. Once they've already exhausted all their other channels, but in the early days I don't get anything. They go, they start the company, they go right to Facebook and Google and Facebook and Google eat up the budgets all the way until they max it out. Once they're maxed, then they start to go to radio, to podcast, to subway ads. And then TV is somewhere in that journey. And we can scale them to mention $75 million plus per year. And that CAC isn't drifting as we increase, spend, sometimes it even gets better. So it holds, or it gets better as you do spend

Dylan (11:46):

What's right. The kind of ratio of overlap y'all see with, you know, I imagine the brand y'all have, you know, if they're doing TV, they're, they're all over the place of ads. So I'm kind of curious how you don't over attribute under a tribute, how you kind of gauge that side. Do you look at ecosystem CPAs or CACs or kind of how that works in our y'all's wheelhouse since you discussed CD side?

Skyler (12:06):

Yeah. It's this concept of incrementality. How do I know that this visitor and purchased only came because of TV or streaming and that's it. And it's this concept that we've been obsessed with since day one of tuttare and that's because we were obsessed with it as advertisers, that TrueCar, uh, when we were managing our own TV to the tune of, I guess I can't shut up. Yeah. It's a really massive numbers on TV and we got to those numbers, uh, because of our own in-house measurement. So, um, what, sorry, what was your question again?

Dylan (12:41):

I'm trying to, I think what it was, to be honest, just

Zach (12:43):

Thinking about what was the number, how much did they spend?

Skyler (12:47):

I guess there's it's public information. You can dig it up yourself.

Zach (12:50):

Yeah. Overlap of sales overlap incrementality.

Skyler (12:54):

Yeah. So everyone can say, oh, this TV a customer saw the ad and they came to the website and we get the credit. Facebook does a very good job at view through metrics. Uh, they invented view through they're the worst offenders of youth through. And ironically everyone in TV or ad measurement wants to do view-through as well because your numbers look amazing. So in our product, we actually show you view-through and increments all on a daily basis. So incremental numbers look very, very, very, very harsh, but our companies appreciate that. We even have the prowess with the numbers to show that of like, Hey, these are the visitors that never got hit. When your digital ads, they only came because of TV and that's it. But if you want to see the view-through number, cause you want to compare because Facebook Yacko ha you can toggle and you can go look at your, you through numbers. The numbers are wildly different from each other. Now I know the truth is not viewed through the truth. Isn't incrementally though the truth of somewhere in between those two numbers. So a lot of companies and they will do their own, uh, Mmm. Or MTA analysis, uh, to figure out what the actual truth is in between the statement.

Zach (13:56):

And how does, how does TV tracking even work? Like is everybody just doing like a custom URL on your, and you're tracking clicks? Is that, is it that basic? Because that's what I would do is the, uh, what's kind of the methodology on tracking TV,

Skyler (14:14):

Man TV has advanced so much like, and in large part it's because these smart TV manufacturers have helped out the industry. Big time. If you, if you think this through these home TVs are mostly smart TVs. Now the smart TVs are connected to what your home life at routers. Wow. Your home life, that writers have a IP address. The smart TV manufacturers know the IP address in the chips. That's they can detect all the ads that were served within the household. I can tell you, Zach, you woke up this morning, you turn on Bloomberg and you like the stock market. So you, uh, we hit you with a, making it up a masterclass ad, and then you switched to CNN and we hit you with a, uh, uh, combat. And then since I have access to comms website, it'd be going over the X and fully integrated with their, uh AppsFlyer to adjust Travis similar, whatever it is I think can capture that same IP address came and downloaded, calm. Now making it sound very easy. If it was very easy, just closing the loop on the IP addresses, we would have one data scientist to do it. Instead of we have like 80, because it's a very complex and we're constantly hiring more. Uh, but yeah, the use of IP address in TV attribution is why I can get these brands or why we can get these brands that do too.

Zach (15:38):

And what kind of, um, I don't know, what kind of margin of error is there in the, in the attribution model, right? Like in, in world of, well, I guess not with iOS right now, but like, you know, with like, I guess tracking IPS, I mean, are you, do you have a confidence of like 80% accuracy? 50%? 90%? What's the variance.

Skyler (16:04):

Yeah. I think we're really, really good at it. I don't have like a confidence interval for us.

Zach (16:10):

Oh, he does. But you have like thoughts on it.

Skyler (16:14):

I'd have to ask data science on that, but I don't have any kind of off the shelf. Like, uh, this is, uh, the percent of the word really struggle on this one. Um, I think we do a really good job at it. I think you lead it,

Zach (16:27):

Answer safe, answer from, uh, uh, from anchorman accurate 90% of the time, 60% of the time.

Skyler (16:37):

That's a good one. That's what I said about it. That's what I should have answered that.

Zach (16:43):

All right, man. Let's talk about rich ed. What is working right now on TV?

Skyler (16:52):

Yeah, we don't produce spots like we don't, we're not a production shop. We don't have any cameras at tuttare. Um, but oddly enough, we had this feedback loop across the 200 brands that shows us exactly what's performing on TV. And so there's certain components to a video creative that will make rebate, make or break a creative. And if you have a bag parade of it's not driving response, then your campaigns fail that opportunity. It doesn't matter because your creative is not actually getting anyone to go check out your site or download the app. So the first thing that happens when brands join tuttare, it's actually creative guidance, even though we're not producing spots. I want to tell you everything that makes a performance TV app. So, uh,

Zach (17:40):

So the creative, I mean, who are the creative shops that you guys work with all

Skyler (17:44):

Across the U S even overseas. Like I meet you production shops, every single, because these brands say, Hey, this is my production shop. I want you to meet them. And I want you to tell them, uh, everything that works on TV so they can produce it. So I don't make money off creative. I don't have any partnerships. I just know of production shops that have done good work for our clients. So to give you like one bucket, uh, that's in our playbook and what I say, that's your mic. Wow. Literally I can tell every time there's a target client on cable or stream. So I've seen that genuine people holding strong eye contact, looking directly in the camera will outperform a voiceover, almost every attack. There's some outliers, but in general, genuine people, scruffy beard, someone who bump into, uh, at the coffee shop rather than paying a model will actually drive more sales.

Skyler (18:37):

And so you've seen the Roman spots. Uh, you've seen masterclass, you've seen calm. It's always genuine people saying one value prop right in the camera, very simple background. You don't see chandelier's you don't see distracting jewelry because all of that just take away from what you're trying to tell me. If I see there's a chandelier behind you, I'm gonna say, oh wow, that's a nice chandelier. And how much are showing the layers? The chandelier would look awesome in my living room. After this, I'm gonna go check out Wayfair from year TV, commercial I'm on Wayfair site, even though you were trying to tell me something completely different, you just paid for a visit in a purchase fondly there. So the good ads follow these components. That's again, just one little nugget. I don't want to give out a playbook, uh, publicly, uh, the opposite of that would be like voiceovers that are very distracting. There's a lot going on. You jumped out of the helicopter. Uh, you bundled a bunch of value props and like, Hey, you choose us because we're cheap. We're quality. We're convenient. You're like, wow, I'm lost a lot. How can you be all these things? Like, I don't even know why I should choose you and you just get lost in the sauce and you don't choose them.

Dylan (19:49):

Now with this formula, you kind of mentioned, is this a formula you can implement a hundred percent of the time and it works most of the time. Or is this something to where if we were to get Ryan Reynolds, he doesn't need a formula. Like if you kind of get what I mean. Cause I mean, when I see his ads, I don't even care what it is, but I'm just so relevant because he's so funny.

Skyler (20:08):

Yeah. Great question. So there's outliers and we learn all the time and it's very cheap to learn. You could just introduce a creative, we measure daily. So within that day we can, as long as there's enough data, you can see that creative a is outperforming, create a beat. And we may learn like, oh my gosh, you gave us a animation spot that you said you made with $200 from your designer. And like, it's actually performing as well as your champion. So let's just run it like our creative we'll point out what we've seen. But we learned something all the time because these brands come on a digital, they are creative and they want to do something against the stomach. And we encourage that because again, daily measurement, I can tell you quickly, just like you wouldn't snap. It doesn't work. We tried that image. It's not driving sales, just drop it. We're very unemotional. And we'll just keep adding components to our playbook of like, Hey, these are some crazy things we've seen work if, but really take it even to the next level and do something crazier. And we'll see how it does

Zach (21:14):

Now. What's the minimum. And somebody needs to spend, uh, to get enough data on TV and, and also just a minimum to work with the Atari.

Skyler (21:22):

Yeah. It depends on the product. Uh, you know, you don't buy life insurance every day, right? So getting a CAC for life insurance is probably harder than a free multiple cane, right? So in order to get data in the bottom of the funnel, you could start smaller, but in general brands will typically start and you work in 50 to a hundred K run that over three to four weeks. Uh, that's a fine minimum pilot. It depends on what they're spending on digital. Sometimes they step up. Now, there are certain companies like I spend a million dollars a week on Facebook alone when I pilot things. Yeah, I go bigger. I start at 300, 400, but that's on them. That's totally on them. We have our minimums just set up because like, Hey, the worst pilots are the ones where you don't know whether you should throttle or run for the Hills from a channel.

Skyler (22:08):

And I don't want that thing, our reputation. So we have minimum set up of like, Hey, this is that, this is what I would encourage. And I could look at you in the eye and say, okay, we should have enough data and Baba to scale this thing or go back to Facebook and Google. And if it's the latter, you'll be happy that we came to that conclusion with a small spend as possible, rather than working with a partners. Like, well, I don't know. And you don't know, let's spend more tell me if you feel it, then next thing you know, you blink here a million dollars that on TV and you're still in, know how it's going?

Zach (22:41):

Oh my gosh, it happens. Happens

Skyler (22:44):

Every week you take over someone who's not new to TV. They're just very wounded because they spent a lot of money and they have no idea. They come to us like they're new to TV. They're like, just ignore, like treat me as if I'm new to TV. Because my last partner, I had no idea what happened. I don't even know if creative AI is better than pre the B or C. I don't even know if news or sports does better treat me like a new brand. I made a mistake. I partnered with someone that was not a big kitchen.

Speaker 6 (23:09):

Oh my gosh. That sounds awful.

Speaker 7 (23:11):

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Zach (24:14):

Okay. So it is for your clients. Is TV. Is it the most expensive channel for them? And like, that's the, that's the, that's the image I have of TV. Do you mean expensive CPMs in terms of a CPA base? Okay.

Skyler (24:31):

In terms of it's the most expensive channel to test in large part because of creative, you can't just use your Facebook ads. You can't take a picture of your contacts and with your phone and throw it on. So it's an expensive one to test in terms of as expensive at the CAC. It depends on when you're testing TV. I don't recommend launching TV a week after you fire up the company, because there's so much low hanging fruit and digital that you should go take advantage of and exhausted. I want you to stress test Facebook to the best of its ability, eat up all the low hanging fruit. Once you eat all that up, you're going to realize your martial cat keeps drifting and that's when I should be able to be Facebook. And then you're going to say, oh, well at scale, yeah, you're be in Facebook.

Skyler (25:17):

And you're going to get a lot more of my budget when we get budgeting pieces every week. Where does that money come from? Comes from Facebook and Google. So, yeah, and if our cap starts to drift, where does the money go? When they decrease with us Facebook and Google, and we're so connected to Facebook and Google, it's remarkable. Like when Facebook suddenly starts to not perform well, you just see the messages from the clients flooding and Hey guys, uh, adding incremental $300,000 budget next week for you guys. It's so connected. Then you read in the news, like Facebook's having performance issues or it's so connected. So that, that the answer of like, is it expensive? Yes. To start, it's more expensive than what we're used to in digital. Um, but are they cats more expensive? It shouldn't be, unless you're doing some like big brand campaign, like, Hey, we're not even trying to drive sales. We're just trying to get this message out there. Um, let's go on to very high premium CPM stuff. This is not a driving sales play. This is just getting our messages out. But most of our brands, you know, hold us to attack and we need to be in line with Facebook and Google or beating Facebook and Google.

Zach (26:31):

Oh my gosh. It's so crazy. Now, do you think like of the, your clients is TV budget? Like what would be the ratio of like TV in the mix? You think it represents 20% of overall budget? 50 a hundred? Like what, what is your typical profile? What's the, how much does Facebook and Google own versus to target? It depends.

Skyler (26:55):

Yeah, it depends on the scale of mature marketer, easily. 60, 70% of their budget will be going to TV at scale early on, maybe 10, 20% of the budget goes towards TV. But as we spoke about earlier, it's all about finding the, the point of diminishing returns on digital, where you start reallocating that budget to TV. So it really depends on the stage of the company where they're at, uh, with that spin.

Zach (27:24):

Yeah. Well, I'm just learning about TV ads. I don't, I don't even know what we're supposed to talk about in the podcast anymore. I

Dylan (27:30):

Would say if you dive into a nightmare story, to be honest and bring up this poor ad, I want to hear about a dumpster fire. To be honest,

Zach (27:37):

I want to hear somebody that just bombed on a creative. Um, yeah. Tell us,

Skyler (27:46):

I can't, let's say a bad story. I think in general, if you run a campaign and it's the most expensive test you've ever had to budget, whether it's because remember Facebook, you'd start out with five bucks. They're used to all this stuff, uh, low-hanging fruit kind of cheap test. You can fire up Google ads of five bucks as well. So if you put together a budget, that's pretty chunky with a 50 K could, is very chunky in comparison to $5. And your website has problems that week of the pilot. Uh, that's just the ultimate, right? Like you come to the site and you can't actually convert them, um, because you have bugs or your checkout flows broken, or something's wrong with Shopify. That is just the ultimate, um, kind of poor pilot. And you have to rip it. You have to say like, Hey, please turn off media ASAP.

Zach (28:38):

Literally I'm surprised the podcast has gone this long without somebody saying, yeah, there was a broken link one time, and it's been six figures. Uh, that, that is like literally the most, um, rudimentary, basic poor ad, which is your LinkedIn work. Oh, that's,

Skyler (28:56):

That's a bad one, but also not being able to fulfill orders would be really bad. Like you weren't prepared for the scale of TV. Like, oh, this ad's going to air nationally. And people that had never heard of rad are going to hear about it. And is your supply chain ready for TV? And that's always one of my earliest questions to a brand of like, are you ready for TV? Like, can you fulfill the orders? I'm not saying this to like scare, you can, do you have the inventory to fulfill the orders because it hits when it works. And yeah, it would suck to tell all these new customers that yeah. We're sold out. And that's a, that's a, a bad first brand experience for someone that's just learning about your brand for the first time.

Zach (29:36):

My gosh. Okay. All right. Let's talk about a financial principle here for somebody that wants to get into TV advertising. Um, creative is the most expensive part. What, um, what would you say like that their first investment should be into creative conservatively, right? Like, let's just say, they're going to test a hundred grand on TV. Um, what should, what should they throw aside on the creative and who should they be talking to?

Skyler (30:09):

I think it's more about quality of like, you don't want, you don't need to win some award. You're not trying to win a Grammy's on this creative. Don't spend so much time and emotional capital of like, what should we go out with on this national campaign? And what celebrity should we pay? You could easily get into 250 K 200 K 500 K on TV, creative, if just for a test, just to see if it works. And you may spend two quarters thinking about this and meeting after meeting, after meeting brainstorming, what's the value prop. What's the messaging and to Atari's approach is like, treat it like digital. You didn't spend that much time thinking about which Snapchat ad you're going to go with. What a Facebook ad. You're going to answer the market way, bring that digital prowess into TV and say like, Hey, do two to three concepts.

Skyler (31:06):

Make each one wildly different from each other. If you're a CMO is so sure that this one's going to be the champion creative, cool. Let he, or she do that one. And then let the other person that has a really strong opinion do one his or her way. And the third one, maybe you guys jointly all do one together and let's put media against it and let's see, let the data tell us which one's actually performing. And that's a better non-emotional way of going about it. Let's just test it. And let's see, but putting a price tag on it's tricky because what if you have in-house resources that produce spots and they're just salary workers. What if you have a buddy that owes you on and he could produce, or she could produce the spots for you? Um, that $5,000 for the spots where maybe you don't have any of that and you need to go spend 40, 50 K for a whole batch of spots.

Skyler (31:59):

Uh, maybe you feel like you're in such a category that like your competitors are so massive. You, you need to go stomach a hundred K creative for the batch of them. You need a hundred K budget to do that. So I've seen it all. I've seen some really solid spots that in-house production teams have looked up and they'd never done a TV commercial before, but they leaned on our playbook and it looks really solid. It doesn't look exactly like the a hundred K spots, but like you it's, it's a solid, solid spot for a TV pilot,

Dylan (32:31):

Man. And I even remember that I was working with one account and they were huge on the TV side. And they flew me out to LA for a commercial. And I've never seen a shoot before. They have like 30 people in this mansion. Everybody was doing different things. And when I found out how it was, I think it cost around 80 K. I was like, oh my God, what are y'all doing with this? And you're saying this, I'm like, okay, this actually makes logical sense.

Skyler (32:54):

It depends if that brands doing, you know, 40 million, $50 million a year in TV and they know it pays for itself, then yeah, you can stop that. But if you're just piloting TV, if you're just testing to see if there's anything there for you that I wouldn't start that

Dylan (33:09):

Mall. Oh yeah. And they're getting shoot seven, 8 million website visits every single month. So I mean, the amount of volume of traffic they're getting is just absolutely banana. So, I mean, it makes sense for the threshold they're out for sure. Yeah. That could be a good lead for you, man. I'll make connections. Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, snap man, was that the financial segments? I

Zach (33:36):

Wasn't even sure Dylan's lost. I love it, man. Uh, tell everybody how they can get in touch and how we can support

Skyler (33:43):

You. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so our website's w just maybe got to tare about TV. Um, we have a fellow counseling with general questions, but if you've had anything from sales related or, uh, partnership related, you can reach out to me, S T Y L E R at to target TB. Uh, yeah. I'd love to chat. Talk about advertising. You talked about, I love soccer traveling. It doesn't have to just be about work. Um, but yeah, something that I'd love to hear listeners hear.

Zach (34:15):

Boom. I love it, man. Thank you so much. Of course it was a pleasure.

Speaker 7 (34:25):

Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the rich ed or ed podcasts. If you're like me and listen to podcasts on the go, go ahead and subscribe on apple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and rich dad, poor And if you absolutely love the show, go ahead and leave a review and a comment share with a friend. If you do take a copy screenshot of it, email me Show me you left a review. I'll give you a free copy of the rich add or add book. Learn more about the book. Go to rich ed, to leave a review that a rich ed pour Thanks again.

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About The Podcast

Jason Hornung is the founder and Creative Director at JH Media LLC, the world’s #1 direct response advertising agency focusing exclusively on the Facebook ads platform. Jason’s proprietary methods for ad creation, audience selection and scaling are responsible for producing $20 million + of profitable sales for his clients EVERY YEAR

Zach Johnson

Zach Johnson is Founder of FunnelDash, the Agency Growth and Finance Company, with their legendary Clients Like Clockwork solutions. Under Zach’s leadership, FunnelDash has grown to over 5,000+ agency customers managing over $1 Billion in ad spend across 41,000 ad accounts on. Zach’s private clients have included influencers such as Dr. Axe, Marie Forleo, Dan Kennedy, Dean Graziozi to name a few. Zach is also a noted keynote speaker and industry leader who’s now on a mission to partner with agencies to fund $1 Billion in ad spend over the next 5 years.

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter

Dylan Carpenter will be diving into what he and his team are seeing in 200+ accounts on Google and Facebook when it comes to trends, new offerings, and new opportunities. With over $10 million in Facebook/Instagram ad spend, Dylan Carpenter had the pleasure to work with Fortune 500 companies, high investment start-ups, non-profits, and local businesses advertising everything from local services to physical and digital products. Having worked at Facebook as an Account Manager and now with 5+ years of additional Facebook Advertising under my belt, I’ve worked alongside 60+ agencies and over 500+ businesses. I work with a team of Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn experts to continue to help companies and small businesses leverage the power of digital marketing.

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